ditherig.exe on Windows 11 24H2

I have posted lots of noise here. But, just want to confirm, dithering.exe - does work on windows 11 and reduces strain for old hardware. 100 percent.

whystrainwhy All of them copy from each other and use the same industry methods, so I would not point out to anything specific. Ditherig was created for those old GPUs first, but this is a list from creator of ditherig:

This requires Intel 6th generation graphics or later (e.g. Intel HD Graphics 3000, including Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, Haswell, Bay Trail, Broadwell, Cherry Trail, Skylake, Kaby Lake, Broxton, Coffee Lake, Gemini Lake, Amber Lake, Whiskey Lake, Ice Lake, Comet Lake, Lakefield, Jasper Lake, Rocket Lake, Alder Lake, Raptor Lake and Meteor Lake generations) or AMD GCN 5th generation graphics or later (e.g. AMD Radeon Vega 11 Graphics, including Raven Ridge, Picasso, Renoir, Cezanne, Rembrandt, Barcelo, Raphael, Phoenix and Hawk Point generations).
I have checked behavior with Intel Iris Xe Graphics, Intel UHD Graphics 620, Intel HD Graphics 515, Intel Iris Pro Graphics 5200, Intel HD Graphics 4000, AMD Radeon Vega 8 Graphics and AMD Radeon 680M.

So I personally would go for newest one from this list, or maybe get proper gaming raphics card for stationary desktop. Those usually a bit more liberal on customizations.

Also, all in all, I would say - macbooks are not as bad as claimed. Windows 11 I think is worse than any macbook on the older machine. Newer machines, maybe it is much better, I do not know. With any of the Air line you could set Generic RGB color profile, turn of dithering with betterDisplay or stilColor app, and it will be better. It just what happens - people tend to work more and become more engaged whilst using macbooks, this is a reason why unfortunately macbooks are blaimed for so many things. I am yet to prove this, but once I will get that portable monitor which could be placed above macbook air screen, you could have good machne. Switching machines also, I realised not a good idea. I do not know why, but if I would work with macbook all day, and then switch to windows 11 laptop, I would be toasted and have severe brain fog. But if using only windows machine, I can adapt to it. Just not sure anymore is it really better. It culminates always in anxiety attack and brain for me.

And forgot to mention Ubuntu or other linux distro. These I feel work well with old hardware, i.e. it allows to turn of dithering. I even had one company who did not allow to use Windows for contractors. They said either Mac or Linux, no windows.

macsforme

pretty sure the 2015 retina has issues at the TCON / LCD panel level

(as do a lot of laptop IPS panels in general — e.g. my thinkpad T480 was unusable with 6 different IPS panels I swapped in of varying color gamuts and resolutions. even menus in the BIOS was causing strain and depth perception issues, but BIOS finally started feeling normal once I started testing TN panels instead)

the 2015 retina has a lot of anomalies, e.g. even when I attempted to simulate a fully monochrome display by filtering the entire screen green and turning off red/blue sub pixels —

there was still really strange things happening like text having blue glows around it, darker greens looking very blue tinted in general, drop shadows looking more intense than they should, and scrolling leaving very noticeable red ghosting trails. this happened in both macOS and Ubuntu

not really sure if dithering even is necessarily the main problem here, as disabling the AMD chip's dithering on macOS on the 2015 using the PsychtoolboxKernelDriver method (which also let me truncate to 6 bit with visible banding) did nothing at all to improve strain on the LCD

what the problem felt like to me seems to be something like an oversharpening effect, dynamic contrast, an effect that blurs lower-contrast colors, or some kind of really strong motion blur/overdrive happening at the panel level?

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Donux Do you mean tinnitus? I get tinnitus from screens too. I am thinking its from neuro inflammation or some sort of elevated intracranial pressure that screens trigger?

simplex

Have you tried same with arc750?

Here I tested the ASRock ARC A770 on Windows 10 22H2. The behavior is identical to that of Intel UHD 48EUs.

Btw, if arc750 and your Intel UHD doesnt have activated dithering by default, what could be the issue with arc750…?

Unfortunately, I don't have a definitive answer to this question.

To me, the default image from the ARC A770 appears sharper and more contrasty compared to the Intel UHD 48EUs on any operating system. My eyes tend to prefer a slightly softer image.

When comparing Windows 11 on the PC (ARC A770) to Windows 11 on MBP M1, the first thing I notice with the Apple Silicon is a much flatter image - less contrasty and less sharp. This provides my eyes with maximum comfort. It seems that certain aspects of image processing in Windows 11 do not function properly when the OS is running on Parallels on an Apple Silicon Mac. Either the Apple Silicon M1 graphics card processes the image in a way that sharpness and contrast are not boosted.

As a result, I think this difference might be due to variations in the processing algorithms applied to the image (including gamma/color/etc correction). These could stem from the GPU hardware pipeline itself or differences in the software.

In my case, dithering is disabled by default, but with a graphics card from another vendor, the behavior might be different. Theoretically, there could also be hidden hardware defects resulting in jitter or high-frequency flickering.

We still know very little about how it all works internally and what the mechanisms of its effect on our eyes are.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

I did this on Windows 10 22H2 with Intel UHD 48EUs and the Intel ARC A770.

The difference in the number of pixels with varying shades is pretty noticeable, even when using the same driver version. Since both the Intel UHD 48EUs and Intel ARC A770 are built on the same Xe architecture, they can use the same Intel UHD driver. However, I didn’t dive into comparing the exact pixel values themselves.

I’m currently looking for an application that can display two images side by side or overlaid on top of each other. Ideally, it would let me, when hovering the mouse cursor over a pixel in one image, automatically receive information about that pixel in the second image:

1. Check the pixel values for both images.

2. See how significant the differences are.

3. Show the actual pixel shades somewhere on the info panel.

It’d also be great if the app allowed zooming in on the images and switching between them with a key press (in case they are overlaid on top of each other) to make evaluating the differences easier.

If I can’t find an app like this, I’ll probably just write one myself. Not sure exactly when I’ll get around to it. Since my experiments with the iMac 27 2015 were unsuccessful (it went out of stock in my region), I have some free time, and I might write this application this month.

jordan

I ran Windows 11 in Parallels (a virtual machine).

do you have to do anything to disable the dithering on win11 with apple silicon?

I didn't do anything. Temporal dithering is 100% absent (I checked). It also seems that GPU emulation in Parallels does not involve spatial dithering. My display is 6-bit+FRC, and spatial dithering enhances the FRC module. If it were present, working on this setup would not be comfortable.

jordan

I thought it would still have dithering since its mac os with the win in vm.

Dithering, which strains the eyes, always comes from the graphics card. In this case, it is enough to use StillColor to disable dithering on the Apple Silicon.

would you say windows on that is the most comfortable?

In my case, it is no different from macOS. Working in both operating systems is comfortable. In this case, the differences include a different graphics card (i.e., not Intel, Nvidia, or AMD) and possibly something else that we do not yet know about.

is windows able to be installed as the main os?

Windows 11 can currently only be run in Parallels; full installation is not supported. I use Windows 11 to run a few utilities that I need for work. Otherwise, its use is debatable, as the virtual machine does not provide the required level of performance, and Windows 11 has an ARM architecture, which also imposes certain limitations. That is, it is not a replacement for a PC.

im assuming this is only for external screen not internal mba screen right?

I use an external monitor because I can't work with MacBook Air/Pro screens.

WhisperingWind

(Do you think this is because running the windows 11 VM is activating the Metal direct display mode and bypassing processing since it's a fullscreen window?)

IMO your experience here is very strange to me. As I've never been able to get M1 macOS (or even Intel macOS for that matter!) to work with any external monitor that's fine on a known good setup

(an example of a known good setup for me is my current solution: Raspberry Pi 2011 Model B, 1st generation with acceleration turned off + the older dispmanx display driver + showing the same macOS or Windows desktop through VNC)

I have an M1 Air which should have the same GPU as your M1, but when displaying the same screenshot between both the Mac connected to a monitor, and the Raspberry Pi Gen 1 ---

the Mac creates extremely strange artifacts on all monitors I've connected it to, everything (in the same screenshot that looks fine when output from the Pi Gen 1) looks either extremely oversharpened or too blurry when output from the Mac. I notice additional color fringing and blue glows around larger objects. All photos seem to have some sort of contrast enhancement or antialiasing effect where smaller objects / AKA "objects in the background of the photo" look more blurry or smudged than they should.

This effect is definitely caused by the M1's GPU, or HDMI controller, or possibly the macOS window server (but at a stage after the plain, unprocessed framebuffer is rendered, meaning that it's not captured by a generic screenshot)

Because: The same photos, displayed on the same macOS desktop, but captured as a screenshot instead (or shown through VNC) and displayed on the Pi Gen 1 connected to the monitor (instead of from the Mac's HDMI output) look fine.

This remains true even with Stillcolor and the Force RGB EDID workaround.