This thread is - ditherig.exe on Windows 11 24H2. Not Linux, not apple, but windows and specifically ditherig.exe application.
ditherig.exe on Windows 11 24H2
JTL Yes, but this is kind of implicit agreement between most of dithering testers that gradient test is the most accessable. Of course, I wish I had this super fast camera, then this would be a no brainer. And I probably would be able to share all test variations and tell exactly how it is. But right now, really, I am and most other people I assume, are touching various parts of the elephant while being blindfolded. I personally struggle to understand, why I feel fatigue over time on windows 10 with or without dithering.exe, which on windows 10 I assume has best chance to work (and older versions). But I do not feel fatique when using windows 11, but that tension in the eyes and forehead.
Today I have switched back from windows 11, to windows 10. Ditherig.exe was not installed. And it feels so much easier than windows 11. Will test for a while without ditherig.exe and then maybe later install it. One thing I would avoid on windows 11 and windows 10 - not to install those windows optional drivers where you need to go and explicitly select. These change something and cause eye strain for me on my X1 lenovo. After doing it one time, I will never ever install anything from that list.
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And have to report back and say I had to switch back to newest windows 11 with all the stuff installed. Windows 10 feels good for a while, but culminates in brain fog and other weird energy drain, fatique symthoms. I do not understand why, but rather use windows 11 with slight strain (not too big, just slight tension), instead of windows 10. It is actually possible that brain has associated windows 10 with some events in life, previous work, or just familiarity, which makes it "feel good" reward when using this OS, but in reality, its not actually really good. Ditherig.exe does make changes to rendering, so it works. But I can not test it by producing dithered image signal, probably would need to spend more time in order to get to it.
So as you can see, I am just a ginny pig just most of you, trying to figure it out X * Y * Z factors = Y1,2,3...x (symthoms). To figure it out without technical testing, would need to record a lot of data over a period of time by multiple people. But this would be prone to errors, as it is really not isolated environment.
WhisperingWind This is absolutely fascinating and I'm glad I stumbled on this. I have an Intel Arc A750 Limited Edition and I have found that on a specific 1080p monitor it feels better than other monitors that are 2k/4k IPS/VA etc. The point is that I still feel a bit of brain fog after about an hour of use. From your experience with Intel Arc GPUs, do you think the new B580 that everyone is talking about would make of a difference or is the architecture used in the GPU as well as the drivers basically the same as to induce dithering or other stuff? I've basically shut off everything I can think of that would enable dithering in Windows 11, and I think ditherig kinda helps? But not 100%. Before spending a bunch of money on a GPU I can't return, I'd be curious to dig a bit deeper. Maybe I can try out Linux on that specific GPU + monitor. I have yet to have any luck with Linux, but do you have a recommended distro + DE?
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whystrainwhy I have an Intel Arc A750 Limited Edition and I have found that on a specific 1080p monitor
Can you send gpu-z main page screenshot, (to compare vbios version etc), windows build name / driver version + specific settings used, monitor + cable used, motherboard name + bios version?
@WhisperingWind Hi, could you also share same data, to compare it with WSW ? Very interesting, whats difference between your equipments…
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From your experience with Intel Arc GPUs, do you think the new B580 that everyone is talking about would make of a difference or is the architecture used in the GPU as well as the drivers basically the same as to induce dithering or other stuff?
I believe that it won't get worse, but it won't get better either.
I've basically shut off everything I can think of that would enable dithering in Windows 11, and I think ditherig kinda helps?
I think if the vendor of your graphics card changed the VBIOS and enabled dithering by default, then Ditherig should disable it. Since the format of control registers for enabling/disabling dithering has remained unchanged for a long time. It is only necessary to make ARC recognized as an Intel iGPU of the latest generations that supports Ditherig.
Maybe I can try out Linux on that specific GPU + monitor. I have yet to have any luck with Linux, but do you have a recommended distro + DE?
At the moment, only on my TV, Windows and Linux do not cause eye strain. The latest Ubuntu X11 work for me.
Hi, could you also share same data, to compare it with WSW ? Very interesting, whats difference between your equipments…
ASRock Arc A770 Phantom Gaming 16GB OC https://ibb.co/yFKrkhYX
Unnamed HDMI 2.0 cable, 3 meters.
Motherboard https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z390-AORUS-MASTER-G2-Edition-rev-10#kf
BIOS F8 (Mar 15, 2019) https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z390-AORUS-MASTER-G2-Edition-rev-10/support#support-dl-bios
Kingston Fury 3200MHz 32 Gb DDR4 RAM (4x8Gb)
CPU 9900K
specific settings used
All graphics settings are set to default (Windows, Linux).
There is no ReBAR support in the BIOS (even in the latest BIOS version for my motherboard).
WhisperingWind There is no ReBAR support in the BIOS (even in the latest BIOS version for my motherboard).
I can update BIOS in my z390d / z390ud (same is your, 2019 year old) to new one which support re-bar. But I am afraid to make it worse, no possibility to revert it back
Btw, how your A770 works without issues with intel gen 9 and no re-bar active? I found it is main requirement (with win10 21h2 minimum, 10 gen intel, re-bar)
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ARC can work with 9th generation CPUs without ReBar, but this leads to a drop in GPU performance. Additionally, I observe artifacts in Windows when playing videos in the browser. However, since I use Linux and don't play games, I don't have issues with this configuration.
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moonpie Thankyou I will look try both and compare. I think in the past, my eyes have an easier time with XFCE than any others but often what has happened is after a couple of hours, I'll feel that slowing of the brain and the fog
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I have posted lots of noise here. But, just want to confirm, dithering.exe - does work on windows 11 and reduces strain for old hardware. 100 percent.
Donux Is there a specific GPU you would recommend?
moonpie Fedora XFCE spin. Latest intel and mesa drivers along with Xorg so you can troubleshoot. Latest Xubuntu (XFCE+Xorg) will also work and you may find it easier to use.
@DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs I believe you said Ubuntu running natively gives you strain regardless of hardware. Did you happen to try a Linux flavor running Xorg, a desktop environment other than Gnome (especially a simpler one such as XFCE), or tweaking/disabling compositor settings? I still believe that Linux theoretically holds the most promise due to its open-source nature and configurability, but it certainly does not seem to be universally strain-free out of the box.
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whystrainwhy All of them copy from each other and use the same industry methods, so I would not point out to anything specific. Ditherig was created for those old GPUs first, but this is a list from creator of ditherig:
This requires Intel 6th generation graphics or later (e.g. Intel HD Graphics 3000, including Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, Haswell, Bay Trail, Broadwell, Cherry Trail, Skylake, Kaby Lake, Broxton, Coffee Lake, Gemini Lake, Amber Lake, Whiskey Lake, Ice Lake, Comet Lake, Lakefield, Jasper Lake, Rocket Lake, Alder Lake, Raptor Lake and Meteor Lake generations) or AMD GCN 5th generation graphics or later (e.g. AMD Radeon Vega 11 Graphics, including Raven Ridge, Picasso, Renoir, Cezanne, Rembrandt, Barcelo, Raphael, Phoenix and Hawk Point generations).
I have checked behavior with Intel Iris Xe Graphics, Intel UHD Graphics 620, Intel HD Graphics 515, Intel Iris Pro Graphics 5200, Intel HD Graphics 4000, AMD Radeon Vega 8 Graphics and AMD Radeon 680M.
So I personally would go for newest one from this list, or maybe get proper gaming raphics card for stationary desktop. Those usually a bit more liberal on customizations.
Also, all in all, I would say - macbooks are not as bad as claimed. Windows 11 I think is worse than any macbook on the older machine. Newer machines, maybe it is much better, I do not know. With any of the Air line you could set Generic RGB color profile, turn of dithering with betterDisplay or stilColor app, and it will be better. It just what happens - people tend to work more and become more engaged whilst using macbooks, this is a reason why unfortunately macbooks are blaimed for so many things. I am yet to prove this, but once I will get that portable monitor which could be placed above macbook air screen, you could have good machne. Switching machines also, I realised not a good idea. I do not know why, but if I would work with macbook all day, and then switch to windows 11 laptop, I would be toasted and have severe brain fog. But if using only windows machine, I can adapt to it. Just not sure anymore is it really better. It culminates always in anxiety attack and brain for me.
And forgot to mention Ubuntu or other linux distro. These I feel work well with old hardware, i.e. it allows to turn of dithering. I even had one company who did not allow to use Windows for contractors. They said either Mac or Linux, no windows.
macsforme I believe you said Ubuntu running natively gives you strain regardless of hardware. Did you happen to try a Linux flavor running Xorg, a desktop environment other than Gnome (especially a simpler one such as XFCE), or tweaking/disabling compositor settings?
For what it's worth, I tried installing Xubuntu on my 2015 Retina 15-inch MacBook Pro and changing the color depth to 6-bit (from the default of 12-bit) via xrandr. As far as subjective comfort, the result was the same at best or possibly worse, with the symptoms being a sensation of the picture moving under my eyes and being unstable, a sensation of starting to go cross-eyed (depth perception issue?), and my eyes having difficulty resting on any text or elements. In my peripheral vision, I felt constant movement/noise/flickering.
I believe someone posted a method for setting 6-bit color depth at the driver level, so I may try that at some point but that will be for another day. I do find it curious that the xrandr method did not seem to improve dithering. I have used some Windows laptops (HP Zbook) where Windows reports 6-bit color for the built-in display, and these were some of the most comfortable screens I have seen.
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pretty sure the 2015 retina has issues at the TCON / LCD panel level
(as do a lot of laptop IPS panels in general — e.g. my thinkpad T480 was unusable with 6 different IPS panels I swapped in of varying color gamuts and resolutions. even menus in the BIOS was causing strain and depth perception issues, but BIOS finally started feeling normal once I started testing TN panels instead)
the 2015 retina has a lot of anomalies, e.g. even when I attempted to simulate a fully monochrome display by filtering the entire screen green and turning off red/blue sub pixels —
there was still really strange things happening like text having blue glows around it, darker greens looking very blue tinted in general, drop shadows looking more intense than they should, and scrolling leaving very noticeable red ghosting trails. this happened in both macOS and Ubuntu
not really sure if dithering even is necessarily the main problem here, as disabling the AMD chip's dithering on macOS on the 2015 using the PsychtoolboxKernelDriver method (which also let me truncate to 6 bit with visible banding) did nothing at all to improve strain on the LCD
what the problem felt like to me seems to be something like an oversharpening effect, dynamic contrast, an effect that blurs lower-contrast colors, or some kind of really strong motion blur/overdrive happening at the panel level?
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I do not understand, why I do get tinutulus immediately after starting to use macbook :/ Is it wifi, is it some CPU/GPU high pitch noise, is it super fast flickers, is it light itself triggering nervs in the eyes. Too many questions, and not many answers.