Hi everyone,

I just bought a new MacBook Pro M4 Pro with nanotexture(thought it could be even less straining) and I can’t use it because my eyes get strained after 5 seconds. I tried every setting (p3 600 nits etc.), disabled pro motion, using True Tone, but nothing changes. Also disabled dithering using still color. There’s something wrong with the panel definitely.

It already happen in the past with MacBook Pro 16 2019 which I had to return immediately.
Then didn’t experience any problem with MacBook Pro 13 2020 intel. This broke after 3 years.
I bought Macbook air m2 and was still ok, although a bit more straining than 2020 Mac. Anyway these 2 laptops I could use without changing any setting and for several hours(less on m2, but it was still usable, just avoided to read too much).

Symptoms are the same between this m4 and the 2019 16 I returned: it’s like it’s moving and blurry. And my eyes get wet and tired for hours after. It just takes 5 sec.

Panel serial start with fmx but also in my 13 2020 which was the best for my eyes…

What I don’t understand if it’s a model issue or just the specific panel and I can hope to swap it for a better one.

Also how’s Apple dealing with it these days? I cannot return it because it arrived while I was away. Do they take issues like this seriously or if I’m lucky they just send it to repair and then ship again the same laptop with the same panel…?

Thanks

    Garrel Did you buy it directly from apple? If you explain the situation and ask them to ask their supervisor if they can grant a courtesy return past the return window they may just do it. They honored me warranty on a device in the past outside the warranty window.

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          moonpie I don’t understand why you mention that intel works. I had for some days the 16 intel MacBook Pro from 2019 and it was the most straining screen I’ve ever used. Even more than the new ones. I know that Apple don’t use intel anymore.

          I have a 2009 MacBook Pro which is still working flawlessly. Since then i stick to Apple because I’m used to it and they are actually really stable laptops for music production. That said, if I don’t find a good screen I will need to leave. Pwm and dither could not be the culprits in my case since I used another recent one with no strain at all. And as I read many people are in the same boat. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t fix also these issues, especially dithering since it would be so easy to provide a native solution.

              Garrel Yeah Intel Macs don't work for me either. 2015 15" rMBP (AMD GPU, has an option for Intel Iris-only mode but has the same problems) gives me lots of brain fog, 2018 MBA (Intel iGPU) was actually even worse despite not having dGPU.

              2015 12" retina MacBook (also Intel iGPU) is more tolerable than other modern Macs, but still pretty strainy when compared to the comfortable devices I'm using today.

              Even the 2009 13" MBP (NVIDIA), I actually tested one last year and I had problems with the panel in mine — although I can coherently read text on it at least, even then, I still get a lot of strain if I use it for more than 30 minutes

              Personally I gave up on Macs last year, don't use them at all anymore, except for one that I remote desktop into if I need to use an app that is Mac exclusive

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                  Garrel they are actually really stable laptops for music production

                  FYI, since I also do production, and find Logic Pro + the Mac CoreAudio system very reliable: what I do is have a M1 macbook with closed lid that's connected to my audio interface/headphones and running Logic

                  Then, I have a separate PC laptop with a comfortable screen (AUO B140XTN02.D 2015), which runs NoMachine to view and control the Mac and Logic over the local network

                  I prefer NoMachine for screen sharing as it has very little visual latency, so Logic's meters still feel synced well enough with sound

                  Also, NoMachine actually sends inputs correctly, including stuff like horizontal trackpad scrolling and "holding a modifier key while dragging", which so many VNC apps fail to recognize for some reason

                  With MJPEG compression selected and hardware encoding disabled on the Mac server -- and quality set to highest on the PC client + all "advanced" options checked to disable the auto-adjusting quality stuff, NoMachine's lossy compression becomes virtually unnoticeable yet still has minimal lag

                  This works very smoothly for me and I'm still able to use any music software that needs Mac.

                  (My music quality and production speed actually improved since I did this, I finally feel I can get 100% in the flow of making music. The elimination of strain/brain fog consistently translates into a lot less writer's block!!)

                      DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs Thanks for the hints. But I mostly need a laptop to use on the go. As a desktop solution could be interesting, but I can only afford a main laptop, in order to use it as a desktop and also while traveling.

                          moonpie Also the intel 2020 pro had PWM, and still I experience more strain with MacBook Air M2 which doesn't use PWM. I get your logic and I said I will eventually leave if I don't find an usable solution.
                          That said I was asking about panel lottery, since I saw it mentioned here and elsewhere very often. And also from my experience I noticed there isn't a discernible pattern, but I could be wrong. At the time I read a lot of complaints about intel 2020, but I could use it for hours without problems.

                              Garrel You're pretty lucky, as I had an MBP Intel 2020 13" (Iris graphics, i7, Ice Lake) at one point in the past and I had a lot of struggles using it

                              it was before I realized that computer screens were the source of my problem, but despite not yet knowing about my screen sensitivity, I was still having the exact same symptoms —

                              Constantly dealing with brain fog, trouble reading (especially information dense content like math), inability to concentrate, fatigue, double vision while using the Intel 2020. Similar symptoms to MBA 2018

                              IMO the Intel MBP 2020 is one of the worst Macs strain-wise. Although of course, something like the 2021 14" MBP's mini-LED panel is even worse

                                Garrel

                                I think in this case, if you can only have one computer, you will very likely only find something that works on the PC side. Seems like time to just move on from Macs for this use case

                                BTW, modern Macs even have problems with video output too when using them as a desktop…

                                For instance, I have multiple comfortable external displays now: Sharp LC-G5C26U (720p VA panel), and Sanyo Z2 projector.

                                These displays work perfectly with my current setup, but the moment I plug in an M1 Air, they both start causing strain and begin to show strange visual artifacts — even with Stillcolor running, a "null" color profile, and the "8-bit + force RGB output" Mac EDID workarounds.

                                For example on the Sharp display, large objects rendered by the Mac seem to have bluish glows and occasional color fringing around them that are nonexistent when my good setup is connected. Dragging something around the screen with the M1 connected seems to generate some sort of motion blur effect, consistently leaving much more noticeable ghosting trails than usual.

                                Loading up a "screenshot of macOS" on my good setup connected to the Sharp display, looks totally different than the same screenshot rendered by the Mac connected to the same display. Both are connected with the same cable and resolution. So it's not the font, color scheme etc. causing the issue.

                                I don't think it's specifically dithering flicker going on here, but more likely a kind of sharpening filter or "contrast enhancement"/post-processing kind of effect the Mac is applying to the output.

                                So that's why, even for desktop use, nowadays I have to go through a screen-sharing workaround to be able to comfortably use M1 Mac software on an external monitor, lol…

                                    dev