• HardwareLaptop

  • Macbook air m4 15 incher, any better then previous iterations

I was wondering if someone had started a conversation about this specific 15" MacBook M4 Air haha. So I purchased one and have it booted up as I type this. Funny enough, I have a 4K Asus monitor plugged in and because of other factors of the day, it's hard to say how it's impacting me. I did want to say that I can 100% tell a difference on http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php in terms of the banding showing up when StillColor or BetterDisplay has dithering turned off. However, that doesn't seem to 100% solve the problem. Also I can confirm when I run the following command:

ioreg -lw0 | grep -i enableDither

It shows:

    | |   |   |   "enableDither" = No
    | |   |   |   "enableDither" = No
    | |   |   |   "enableDither" = No

I can set my external monitor to 8-Bit display Color Mode, but in the Display Mode options, it says 10-bit. Which one could it be?

Same with the internal display. Within BetterDisplay, In "Color Mode", there is only one option "Internal (8-bit) with SDR, RGB, Full Range. However in Display Mode, it'll say whatever resolution I have it set to but then next to it say "60Hz" "10bit" - Does this mean what I'm seeing on the actual laptop internal display is 8 bit color on a 10 bit display?

External displays seem to feel a bit better than the internal display. I will continue testing this over the following days.

In the meantime, does anyone else have any other ideas in terms of things I can disable in order to improve the feel of the screen? I also have "Generic RGB Profile" set as the color profile.

    asus389

    I tried all the new Mac laptops in the Apple store and a few at Best Buy today. My experience was odd.

    At the Apple store one MBA 13” was tolerable but the other one next to it (same specs and model) was not. None of the MBPs were tolerable. Strangely Mac Studio M3 Ultra connected to a Studio Display was the most tolerable in the store, but the Mac Mini connected to another Studio Display was horrible.

    At Best Buy the 2 MBA 13”s were bad but the MBA 15” was tolerable. The Studio Display hooked up to a Mac Mini was bad.

    Seems to me with the MBA’s it’s down to the panel lottery. The Studio Display with the Mac Studio I theorize is comfortable because it’s the only computer capable of maintaining the high refresh rate without flickering down to a lower one. In other words the other computers can’t properly push 10-bit at 5K.

    What a 💩 show.

    I wonder if it’s worth trying to get a MBP M1 refurbished instead. This company is an absolute joke.

        Interesting yeah I wonder how many panel suppliers there are and if we can figure out the “better” ones. I too felt at one point the base m2 Mac mini with the studio display felt more or less ok to me. I was in the same apple store after the m4 mini was released and felt it didn’t feel so good with the studio display (perhaps the same studio display even).

        AshX Yeah Best Buy has an awesome policy to try out devices for 60 days and return them if you get the membership so I definitely am utilizing it with trying to find stuff that works 😅 Even with dithering turned off via stillcolor, there’s still something making the screens uncomfortable, including 5 different external monitors. I’ve had this issue with every single Mac laptop or Mac mini/studio I’ve tried going back as far as the 2019 model and all m1-m4. I really love the Mac machines but until this can be sorted, I’m not sure if can use one.

        I did order two sets of Theraspec glasses with the blue and blended lenses to see if maybe that will make these screens a bit more tolerable 🧐

        • AshX replied to this.

            whystrainwhy

            Yeah I installed Stillcolor on the Best Buy (Apple disables the install) and the improvement was very, very minor if you weren’t looking for it.

            I also noticed some flicker on slo-mo camera recordings, but I think it was the store lights at both Apple and Best Buy. Definitely more uncomfortable at higher brightness.

            I think the debate on getting these M4 Air devices comes down to whether the hardware + processor combo is more tolerable than M2/M3, and if not, whether older OS’s are more comfortable and thus it’s worth trying to pick up an older machine.

              whystrainwhy I guess its not a very good news, especially if you have to go to such a long lenghts of tinkering to get it confortable. I did on my macbook air m2 also found best setup on dithering disabled and generic RGB. I assume also you have tried standard settings, since sometimes we jump into tinkering before even testing the standard setup. Sometimes actual workarounds can cause problems too. But probably this is not your case.

                AshX Interesting. For me its a bit opposite, all Pro models I test in store seam to be better. Maybe because of pro motion, maybe because of placebo, I do not know. But properly test in store is almost imposible for me, because in my area, they have big white wide surface lights behind it, which do flicker. But store people are happy to give me a machine to work full day in order to properly test it. I know I need to buy that flicker test device, but not the cheapest one. And then just measure every single unit, and if there is a lottery, well, maybe I can just ask if I can buy display unit.

                  asus389 The 11th gen uses an sRGB display, and in my experience Apple devices with sRGB displays tend to be the most comfortable to me.

                  I just realized this after you said it! I figured the iPad and iPad Air would be support P3 color, but while it states this for higher versions of the iPad lineup, the iPad and iPad Air both have their color space absent in the specs leading me to believe it is a sRGB panel. Nice find!

                    Just wanted to update you guys. I went to a different Best Buy store and found a display unit 13” in Sky Blue. It was side by side a silver and black 13” and 15”, all running M4. Same exact specs. The sky blue MBA was flawless - perfect screen no symptoms. I was amazed. The other two were horrific. The 13” in silver had a washed out screen and blurry test. The 15” had a flicker. The other 15” I found somewhat tolerable was also in Sky blue. It makes me wonder if they’re reusing everything but the chip from the M2/M3 models and that maybe the sky blue only has a shot at being decent.

                    This of course is way too small of a sample size to draw any conclusions. But one thing I can say for sure is the quality control is atrocious with this run. You don’t notice it until you see a good screen side by side a bad one. If I do pick up a 13” or 15” MBA it’ll probably be in Sky blue and here’s to hoping I’ll get lucky with the panel. I don’t know what’s going on but this has to be a manufacturing problem.

                      AshX As an option, you can type the command in the terminal

                      ioreg -lw0 | grep -i "raw-panel-serial-number"

                      to compare the output. Probably, you will find the pattern for the "good" panel.

                          NewDwarf

                          That would be really interesting. @AshX would love to know if all those Sky Blue machines have similar identifiers when comparing the outputs. If you have a chance to go back!

                          • AshX replied to this.

                              Yeah I’m curious about this as well because I’ve never been able to look at a Mac comfortably going back to 2019 models, including the 15” Silver MacBook Air m4 I currently have but can’t look at for very long

                                whystrainwhy Same exact. I'm still on a 2015 MBP. Every MBP or Mac Air 2019 forward has caused eye strain.

                                    NewDwarf

                                    MAS-76

                                    I went to yet another Best Buy and tested the suggested code in terminal. I will go to the Best Buy with the model I found most comfortable tomorrow to compare, but here are the results.

                                    Sky Blue 13” M4:

                                    "raw-panel-serial-number"
<"FP1HD40066S0000G2A+A+5A2F4Z0172A5CH+PR
OD+Y451545244527+Y12241103Y01941119+449T2437GJ29309A4BG438H0004AJ49W06610J8A5137
981+15024108502430150243M50251150261D50261015026195">

                                    Silver 13” M4:

                                    "raw-panel-serial-number"
<"FP1HD90004G0000G29+A+5A2F4Z0452B1EC+PR
OD+B452750135021+P820R1217Y91941122+449T2437GJ53909A4AH443H0004A340M06610J8A5183
388+C25031224503310950331750323850323U50331085033105">

                                    Once again, the Sky Blue was more comfortable, but less comfortable than the previous unit at the other store. This could be because they had abohr the worst overhead fluorescent/LED lighting I’ve ever seen. I could not even look at the carpet it was so bad.

                                    And I can also tell you all it is not placebo because of my COVID complications my left eye is incredibly sensitive to light and flashing lights of any kind and will protectively shut when exposed. So it’s a sure way for me to tell within 5 seconds whether a screen is uncomfortable.

                                    All this being said, that doesn’t mean I - or any of you - will be able to tolerate this computer over a long period of time. I’ve been going to stores because I need a Mac for work and I’m trying to rule out these computers before I waste my time buying them and returning them. Like I said, I can tell almost immediately whether I can tolerate a screen so I don’t need to take several days to see, unless the computer causes very minimal issues in which case I’ll put it through the paces. But I’ve not been able to find one in 2 years.

                                          MAS-76 Every MBP or Mac Air 2019 forward has caused eye strain.

                                          Is that when they switched to their own silicon?

                                              Clokwork BTW, Intel based MBP 16 2019 and MBP 13 2020 already had the screen issues.

                                              Personally, I have been using MBP 15 2019 which is the last usable Apple's laptop for me.

                                                  @Clokwork that was for 2019 Intel as well, even before Apple Silicon.

                                                  NewDwarf that's interesting. I only ever tried the 16" 2019 MBP and it was horrible on my eyes; I didn't try the 15" 2019 MBP. Not ideal, I'd love 16", and not a tremendous upgrade from my current 2015 15" MBP, but at least that would be a little more power and TB3.

                                                    AshX FP1HD9000

                                                    AshX Interesting that they both had the FP starting characters. And very much looking forward to what you find tomorrow when you go back to the previous Best Buy. Particularly with any 15" or 16" that are comfortable for you.

                                                    I hear you that it's not Placebo. I can definitely tell as well within a few secs/mins of using a Mac whether it has bad effects, even in the store. Though as you said, I can't tell necessarily whether I can tolerate the screen long term.

                                                    Guess we're all holding out hope that the panel lottery is real and that there are "good" screens out there by a particular manufacturer. Appreciate you going to the stores and posting the results!

                                                        You can join the BB club for $50/year and get a 60 day return period. Might be worth it for a long term test.

                                                        whystrainwhy

                                                        Is there any color profile that actually forces 8-bits per channel color?

                                                        I recall I set a profile at the store to something and it prevented me from changing the screen brightness for some reason.

                                                          dev