ensete The overhead lighting and other TVs right beside the one you are looking at make this difficult. Thankfully Best Buy has no fault return for TVs so if you don't like it just return and try again. I dislike people abusing brick and mortar return policies but in this case I think it's justified as a TV that gives even a small % of the population a migraine can be considered a defective product.
TV's
- Edited
I have an observation about plasma that I'd like to share.
In a dark room with an LED TV, no matter how I calibrate it the light I can see reflected on the ceiling and walls is always the same shade of blue. I'm pretty sure this comes as a surprise to no one.
However, in a dark room with my plasma TV, when I calibrate differently the light reflected on the ceilings and walls is different. I am using D-Nice's settings (considered very warm) for my Plasma ST60 and the light on the walls and ceilings is almost equal parts green(!) and blue.
Maybe this isn't really news but it affirms to me that trying to get the blue light out of WLED-backlit displays is.. not quite futile but pretty close. It's also one more reason why I think plasma is so gentle on my eyes.
Would oled tvs present a problem when it comes to temporal dithering? Do they display temporal dithering the same way lcd panels do?
6 days later
- Edited
That website rtings.com is really quite good, it tells which TV models has PWM and which does not, the type of display panels used, the flickering factor etc.
Many Samsung TVs have PWM, so those are out. LG panels seems to give me eye strain when looking at it at the store. Sharp TVs, somehow I am not keen on how their picture quality looks. So far I can use Sony LED TVs without any eye strain whatsoever. So I am hoping that I can use their newer models also without eye strain.
So far my shortlisted TVs right now are:
Sony KDL-55W650D - 55 inch. This is a 2016 model, 650 series is entry level. Has less features i.e. no HDR, no Triluminos etc. I figured the less graphics "features" there are are, the less the risk of one of those "features" causing me eye strain. The picture quality is ok, pretty good, for an entry level series. I looked at the 700 series (which has HDR and Triluminos), and didnt like the colors so much...a bit too saturated for my taste.
Sony KDL-50W800C - 50 inch. This is a 2015 model. 800 series is the upper mid-range model. No HDR and Triluminous, but really good picture quality. Has Android TV. I looked at the settings, it came with Android 5.1 and the update can be turned off. So at least I dont have to worry the TV getting a Marshmallow or Nougat update. Surprisingly the Android TV seems to be better for my eyes, at least in the brief period of time when I was looking at it at the store. I dont mind getting a 2015 model. I figured, the older the model, the less risk of it having whatever it is that is causing eye strain on today's newer display devices.
Right now I am leaning towards the 800C, even though it is smaller size and older model. Is anyone using any of these 2 models above? Do they give you eye strain?
Kray Honestly TV's are so hit or miss that it's really what works for you. I'd always personally rather have a one year older upper model than a one year newer lower model, so if it were me sight unseen I'd take the 800C.
I don't know how the triluminous plays with our eyes, in theory it SEEMS good - three different colored lights, that can be turned up and down independently. But in practice on phones it was dreadful, so staying away from it might be a good plan regardless.
- Edited
it tells which TV models has PWM and which does not, the type of display panels used, the flickering factor etc.
Literally zero of the TV's I have had problems using have used PWM or flicker.
a year later
- Edited
I have a Sony 50W800C. It's a bit older, but I have no problems with it except when I'm already dizzy to the point of wanting to look at nothing.
You can change the settings on it to turn off any flicker too, which was why I originally chose it over Samsung. Android plus Kodi is great too.
4 months later
- Edited
I have been through 5 T.V.'s so far (all from 2019) including a Sony that was not supposed to have PWM according to rtings.com (X850F) with no luck! Is the X850E still treating you well? Would you recommend for those of us with sensitive eyes? I am kinda desperate at this point to gets something that I can watch for more than 20 min without intense eye strain/headaches/dizziness etc. Let me know if you have any insights, thanks!
Thanks for the tip on game mode.
I've bought a new Sony KDL-50W660F LED TV about a year ago. I purposely chose a 1080p model (I don't watch a lot of 4k content, plus i dont like how 720p or 1080p content look when scaled up to 4k) and also one that does not have Android TV.
At first, I do get some mild eye strain and I would not be able to watch whole movie (1-2 hours straight) without feeling dry and fatigue eyes. But after a while, my eyes must've adjusted or gotten use to it, because now I can watch entire movie (2-3 hours movie) without a problem. So I am happy.
I think for some TV or display panels, if you get just mild eye strain, maybe can try to use it and see if your eyes can adjust to get use to it. May not work for everyone though.
4 days later
ensete If game mode works for you I would say you made some great progress diagnosing yourself. LED is really slow and has tons of motion blur. Game mode, over drive, black frame insertion and super high refresh rate are probably the answers you are looking for.
9 days later
Kray You should visit Rtings.com they review tons of TVs. This question you are asking is different for every TV. It's just my opinion but up until about 2018/2019 usually the higher end models work but most LED's are not good at playing movies. Rtings checks for flicker and checks all sorts of different types of video content you would play plus if it its good for games. Also how the game modes affect lag. A lot of new high end TV's now auto switch to game mode because TV's are famous for having terrible input lag. Gaming monitors always win in this area.
a year later
I have recently bought a Sony XG8096 (German 2019 model) 43" 4K TV and have been using it almost daily for 6 weeks now. I was pleasantly surprised to notice that I can use it at full brightness. Normally I have to turn down displays' brightness all the way down to zero, but then they still cause eyestrain quickly.
I suppose the reason this TV works for me well in this regard is the spectrum. I think it looks different than your regular White LED backlight spectrum. I tried to make a photo through a cheap handheld spectrometer. You might have seen it before in another thread.
The red part is much narrower than it looks on the photo. It is 2 or 3 very thin lines. This might be caused by the "Triluminos Display" Sony advertises. By searching the net I would think it had been a marketing gag (a mere software feature) since 2013, but maybe there's more to it still.
However, the backlight is not truly flicker-free. Two amplitudes swinging up and down at 20 and 30 kHz respectively, at roughly 6% flicker. This small flicker triggers some symptoms for me, luckily no real eyestrain or headaches. Just a weird feeling around the eyes that persists for some hours.
There is 50% PWM (also at either 20 or 30 kHz, not sure anymore which) at brightness 4 or less, with auto-brightness disabled, and PWM in a dark room at brightness 34 or less, with auto-brightness enabled. Also some dynamic PWM when various settings ("Advanced Contrast Enhancer", "Clearness") or Picture modes are enabled. Picture modes "Game" and "Graphics" (the latter does 1:1 Full HD upscaling) are OK. The white status LED flickers heavily but can be turned off completely.
The TV ships with Android 7.0. It does not have the "Android Eyestrain" certain ROMs give me on my Smartphone. Speaking of ROMs - as I was told, once you update a Sony TV to the latest Android version, it cannot be downgraded ever. Knowing this, I won't ever update it and just will just keep using it as a "dumb display". As we all know, updating an OS could introduce eye strain.
So, my verdict after 6 weeks is: yes, this TV is usable for me. It gives me some weird sensations that I am pretty sure are caused by the 6% flicker (I know the feeling from other flickering lights, for example incandescent bulbs), but no debilitating eye strain or headaches, and I can use it at full brightness in a well lit room, which is something new for me. I think for people that have LED brightness issues like me it could be a current TV solution, especially when you have no problems with tiny flicker whatsoever. If Sony would see the need to make the backlight perfectly flicker-free, I think the TV could be perfect. Unless a future software update makes things worse.
i've put a post on the other forums about what i believe the issue is and for me its contrast ratio. Visit rtings or notebookcheck for detailed specs of TVs and mobile phones with their contrast ratios. The Sony KM is using has a ratio of 799:1 and i find anything under 1000:1 i can happily use which includes mobile phones, TVs and laptops. I wish manufacturers would state the contrast ratio on their website as it would have saved me lots of money changing my phones and TVs. I also find that 60hz panels are more comfortable but that might just be me.
a year later
- Edited
A small update on my Sony TV, as it may be important for future buyers: It seems when you switch to TV mode or start a connected HDMI device, the backlight tends to get out of sync. It introduces a small flicker then, a high frequency "humming" so to speak. Somewhere in the 20+ kHz. It triggers symptoms for me, hard to believe at first, but true. But I also found a way to avoid this: When you boot or reboot the TV's Android OS, after the booting process is complete, the backlight LEDs will be in sync. The high frequency flicker I referred to is not there then. Only if you switch to TV or to a connected (and started) HDMI device's HDMI port, then there is a chance the flicker will come back (in varying amplitude intensities each time). What does this mean exactly? It means every time the video input signal changes, the backlight turns off completely for a short moment. And when it comes back, there is a chance it got out of sync and has said flicker. This is clearly a engineering design fault, as the TV manages to sync the LEDs when it starts up. It seems the routines used for that are not active while the input signal changes, only 1 time at boot.
How to work around this?
1. Don't use the TV function (or ONLY use it, so it is active upon boot)
2. Every time you want to use an external device, do as follows, step by step:
- Switch to the HDMI port without starting the device yet.
- Then reboot the TV (by holding the remote's power button for 10 seconds).
- While rebooting the TV, start the HDMI device before TV rebooting is complete, making sure the HDMI device itself is completely booted and having its final video output before TV rebooting is complete. (If the HDMI device needs longer to boot than the TV does, that's bad.)
- Better look away as while the Sony logo is displayed during the boot process, the backlight flickers strongly.
- Once booting is complete, the TV should sync its backlight properly.
You can switch between TV mode/Android apps, and also between HDMI/Android Apps without syncing issues, fortunately. But you can't have both TV mode and HDMI in the same session.
Remember this when trying any new Sony TV, as this design flaw might have made it into the latest TVs, too.