[KM] The bulbs will be zero flicker if they are engineered to include a DC-DC controller circuit along with linear regulators in series with the LEDs to eliminate the mains 120/100 Hz fluctuation. There is a discussion of this topic in the IEEE 1789 flicker recommendations on page 12, section 5.1D, with the full requirements for zero flicker bulbs described at the end of the paragraph with citations.

Waveform isn’t lying about making flicker-free A19 LED bulbs. Note that their Edison-style LEDs do flicker (as they indicate themselves on the website), I assume because there isn’t space for the correct circuitry inside a bulb of that open style.

Other companies like Philips definitely are currently misleading the public by using “flicker-free” to only reference visible flicker. I’ve tried multiple current “flicker-free” LEDs from Philips and Sunco and they all flicker. Definitely marketing misrepresentation.

Battery power isn’t a guarantee of flicker-free light either, though. For example, I have a battery-powered LED book light that seems like it’s probably flicker-free at full brightness, but it flickers (invisibly) when dimmed. I assume PWM is the dimming mechanism even though it’s a battery-powered light.

    Quad43

    Thanks so best = a19s?

    You’re welcome! If you want to try flicker-free LEDs, the A19 shape bulbs at Waveform that are the normal bulb style and labeled as “flicker-free” are the ones that are better than incandescents for me. I routinely use their 2700K 60W-equivalent bulbs, but they have other color options too. I saw that they recently added a 100W-equivalent option and a very low blue light bulb in their flicker-free line of products, which both sound interesting, but I haven’t tried them.

      Does anyone know what has become of the "violet chip" LEDs that had a few articles some years ago? They were supposed to be sold soon, but I haven't seen them in shelves yet. I imagine they could potentially be much better for some of us. As apart from flicker, spectrum might be another factor.

        KM

        They are on market already, but have a same issue, MTBF (Mean time between failures), i bought and using russian brand Remez. Check http://sunlikelamp.com/ or may be you'll find something like this at your online marketplace.

          Quad43

          Any online light bulb retailer will sell them. You can get them on Amazon as well. Just google "rough service incandescent light bulbs" and you will find them. They are expensive (IIRC around $7 a bulb) but they are rated to last 10,000 hours, which at 12 hours use a day is over 2 years, and in my experience they do hit that lifespan. They also sell 20,000 hour bulbs as well, I have not personally tried them

          You can also buy 40W and 60W chandelier bulbs with the standard size base, they are identical to the old standard A19 bulb in every way, except instead of being shaped like a round globe, it is shaped like an oblong candle flame shape.

          I can still find 60W incandescent flood lights at my local Target, who knows how long that will last though. I would suggest when you find a bulb that works for you, stock up on a lifetime supply. Better to spend a few hundred now and be set for life than risk some overzealous administration outright banning all incandescent bulbs at some point in the future. They have been a (pointless) target of environmental zealots for year and since the vast majority of people just don't care because it doesn't effect them, it's something that could easily be slipped by and leave us high and dry.

              One also can buy halogen bulbs with A19 bases (chandelier too) instead of rough service incandescents.

                Sunspark

                I've had iffy results with halogens. Some are fine, some give me issues. I stick with incandescent for everything.

                    ensete

                    That is puzzling to me.. all halogens are, are incandescents just using a different gas and running the filament a little hotter (hence why they look slightly more white).

                    By all means keep using incandescent if it is available, I am just saying I don't see any physical reason why halogen wouldn't be drop-in compatible. There is no PWM or electronic circuits. It is literally straight voltage to the filament inside the quartz capsule.

                        Sunspark That is puzzling to me.. all halogens are, are incandescents just using a different gas and running the filament a little hotter (hence why they look slightly more white).

                        By all means keep using incandescent if it is available, I am just saying I don't see any physical reason why halogen wouldn't be drop-in compatible. There is no PWM or electronic circuits. It is literally straight voltage to the filament inside the quartz capsule.

                        Halogens have a different color reproduction than incandescent. Incandescent is black body radiation (light coming directly off an energized source), halogen lights give off light by stimulated emission (passing an electric field through a gas that then gives off light).

                        I have observed incandescent and halogen both through a spectrometer and noted the color bands and saw the differences. It's not drastic but for some folks (like me) it's enough to trigger a symptomatic response. Beyond my LED issues I also suffer from symptoms triggered by color reproduction as well.

                            ensete

                            You are wrong with the statement that the halogen bulbs emit light from the gas.

                            Like regular incandescents, they emit light from the filament. They just burn hotter (thus a whiter colour temperature), and the filament lasts longer because the tungsten is redeposited on the filament.

                            The inert gas itself is not light-emitting and the colour reproduction is the same, just a different white point.

                              Quad43

                              Yes, unfortunately. For the ones that have, there are still some limited exceptions (e.g. appliance bulbs for ovens, etc.) but by and large, quite difficult. Even fluorescent strips are going to be phased out in the UK in 2023. UK will stop selling halogens in September 2021.

                              The LEDs that will be sold in the UK and EU are likely going to be higher quality than what is available in North America (mainly cheap trash).

                              Thankfully, Canada is not banning a technology, but rather power efficiency levels which is different than what some other countries have done, where they just banned the technology.

                              So, because of that incandescent halogens remain available in Canada. 3-way bulbs (I have a lamp that takes one, the brightest setting is 150w, the downside of them is when a filament burns out, you only have the other 2 brightness levels left), appliance, rough-service 130v bulbs, etc.

                              I looked up rough-service. It's the same as a regular bulb.. the difference is the voltage it is built for. 130v vs 120v.. so if you put a 130v bulb in a 120v fixture, it just produces fewer lumens, but if it was 75w to begin with, who cares, it'll still be 60 or higher in brightness.

                              • diop replied to this.

                                  Quad43

                                  The US made a very limited ban on >= 60W 120v standard A19 bulbs.

                                  You can still buy lower power incandescent A19 bulbs, you can buy 60W and higher incandescent non A19 bulbs, and specialized (rough service) incandescent 60W A19 bulbs.

                                    They're deprecated in stores, but in Amazon USA you can still buy soft white bulbs of various denominations. 60W is the hardest to find, as others have stated. I find that the Philips Halogen-in-a-standard-housing work very well for me. It's actually much harder to find the good instant-on CFL's now, which is frustrating because those were my favorite.

                                    Sunspark Even fluorescent strips are going to be phased out in the UK in 2023. UK will stop selling halogens in September 2021.

                                    The LEDs that will be sold in the UK and EU are likely going to be higher quality than what is available in North America (mainly cheap trash).

                                    Damn, I'm in the UK, better get shopping!

                                    The halogen bulbs I have in a few lights are comfortable, at least compared with LED. I don't think I've seen an incandescent light bulb since the late 2000's. I would probably react like a moth if I saw one now… 😁

                                      I can find halogen bulbs only online where I relocated. Circa 5 dollars the piece. Incandescent ones are unavailable. The problem is that I have been unable to find lamps which allow more than 13W. I should look for antiques.

                                      jen I really love my flicker-free A19 LEDs

                                      Thanks for the info! What is the difference between the various options, e.g., CENTRIC HOME™ versus FilmGrade™? Do you know any alternative brand producing LEDs of this sort? Thanks.

                                          AGI

                                          Go to a hardware store, you can buy replacement lamp sockets.

                                          • AGI likes this.

                                            AGI

                                            I have checked my home lights and TV's using this application for Iphone. It is not 100% accurate but at least it is helped me to understand why my Samsung TV, Iphone XS and some LED bulbs are giving me severe eyestrain. Have tried to find similar other free app with no success.

                                            Spectrometers are too expensive to buy (Above 1K USD). So other acceptable way to measure PWM with 10-20% accuracy for me was to purchase this device this Radex Lupin. It can be connected to laptop and show some graphs at least.

                                            If you guys know any other acceptable ways to measure PWM flickering let us know.

                                            • KM replied to this.

                                                krr55

                                                Check our oscilloscope thread, the methods developed there are working very well for lighting. Make sure to read all replies, as the info is scattered across the thread.

                                                https://ledstrain.org/d/312-homemade-oscilloscope-to-detect-pwm-diy-guide

                                                @everyone: you need to understand one thing, which is not obvious and may cause disbelief: even extremely small fluctuations can cause symptoms. That is the most important thing I have discovered over time. By tiny I mean fluctuations that you cannot discover with the camera/smartphone methods. You need something more accurate. And frequencies > 20 kHz can still cause symptoms. I think both of those statements go against anything you'll currently read and hear anywhere else about lighting safety and medical knowledge, but if you already know you're sensitive to flicker it is super important that you get the right tools to check out if this level of sensitivity applies to you, too. Cameras are not the right tools. You will never capture fluctuations smaller than 1% with a camera. Not to mention the "pencil" method. Feel free to ask if you need more info.

                                                  dev