Lauda89 i think my old mainboard did only have PCI Express 3, but i am not sure anymore.

    Lauda89 Not sure I understand the "I also had the same symptoms with the old setup when I had upgraded windows to 2004." part.

    Are you saying that when your old Ryzen 1700 system was updated to windows 10 2004 you had exactly the same issues as with the new Ryzen 7xxx and that's why you kept your win 10 on the pre-2004 version?

        hayder1983 Hi, thanks a lot for your message. As for my monitor, I have two that I found OK for me, one of them is really poor - it's a plain TN panel. Another one is a iiyama VA panel.

        One interesting thing is that I seem to have found in the past that it may also be a GPU (or the whole system) vs. specific monitor combination! I also have an older i3-4170 system that I first used with a 6850 AMD card and a very old Benq TN monitor (it was a cheap setup used in my second house). All was perfect. Then I changed the graphics card to NVidia 660. Terrible… I felt it immediately, unstable picture, made me feel dizzy, was hurting my eyes, very obvious. But I knew this card was OK, but I always used it with another TN panel. Brought the panel over to my second house and… all OK, no problem at all. It was years back and on Windows 7.

        BTW finding a good monitor for me is an incredible pain too. However after this finding I'm no longer sure if it's always the monitor. I returned many displays back in the day, most of them were tested with that GTX 660… what if the problem always was in that 660??

            machala # This could be, but it is hard to tell. And it is easy to test a new monitor or use a different laptop with your monitor. And a lot of people at this forum had less eye strain when switching the monitor, including some switching to older models or some using new TN-Panels.

            But there was also one guy who is using a external GPU box(forgot the name) so he can use any laptop with an old Nvidia GPU. They still sell this thing, it is meant for super powerful GPUs, but you can just insert an super old PCI express card and therfore use your laptop with your favorite external desktop GPU. Not sure it works with desktop PCs though. He was quit happy and said after a few months that his eyes returned to normal that way.

            I tested my phone and my TV yesterday. Even my TV is brighter than my monitor. My eyes are watering because of the overly red monitor but not on the brighter more saturated TV. My phone is OLED and is set to "vivid" colors and neutral white. It is a perfect device, always automatically right brightness, best thing i ever bought. Colors are vivid, saturated but they all look perfectly natural, perhaps a bit oversaturated, but nice to look at. No problems when i turn up brightness to max, no eye twitching. If i put my phone on my desk, saturation looks like my monitor at 100% saturation, but colors are not jumping into my eye.

            After that i tried on my phone:

            • more reddish whitepoint -> Eyecramping and watering after 1 minute use.
            • Blueish whitepoint -> nausea
            • neutral whitepoint -> perfect device

            So i tried switching my hue lamps

            • warmwhite -> eyes feeling uncomfortable
            • neutral white -> too bright
            • neutral white + 80% brightness -> totally comfortable

            Then the TV. which has the following settings:cold, neutral, warm1, warm2, warm3

            • cold -> nausea
            • neutral -> too bright
            • warm1 -> perfect brightness but white looks a bit greyish/dirty, but eyes are not reacting
            • warm2 -> eye cramping

            This is new. My eyes never reacted that way to warm color temperature. My old TN-Panel had a slight warm touch. I was even using the Eizo ev2495 at 5000K for at least 100 hours(it is now at 200 hours usage according to its settings menu). White is my problem, it needs to look a certain way, otherwise my brain thinks i got food poisoning or my eye is dirty or sth.

            I dont think my eyes are the cause, i think the BenQ panel is the cause . It is too much light in the colors, too vivid or just too much contrast. My OLED phone is vivid and can go brighter than my monitor and i have 0 problems with it, and it has super high contrast, so i am a bit clueless.

            And yes it might not be the panel, but the Intel mainboard or the GPU, but my new monitor will arrive today. My docking station for steam deck/laptop arrived yesterday, so can now test any of my devices with any monitor and switch fast. I will try some combinations and share. But this BenQ became unusable for me, and this is like after hundreds of hours of usage.

              machala So the LG246GL00F-b Panel arrived today, i am using it right now. I cant/wont jump to conclusions, but there is nothing overly reddish to see. Dark saturated colors dont jump out of the screen, Colors arent glowing, but everything is saturated(using 100% saturation). It is a TN-Panel-look much like my old TN-Panel. Perhaps a little more saturation than my old Panel. Still nothing looks greyish, it is just much less light in all of the dark saturated colors.

              You can not only adjust RGB Gain, but also RGB saturation induvidually. There is also a sharpness slider, black booster, freesync and alot of other stuff. Freesync tested in a few benchmarks, works great, no flicker until yet.

              I need at least a week for my eyes to adjust, but even when this particular TN-Panel wont work, i am pretty sure that TN-Panel with its limitations to colors and contrast is better suited to my eyes than vibrant VA-Panel, because my eyes have their limitations too.

                Clokwork

                I have an 6500XT 4GB card and i have eye issues from my build. If you say it's not the 6500XT card , then it mus lt be the windows then ( i had Win10 and now 11 and they both give me terrible eye pain ). Or maybe the monitor 🤷

                Thanks for clarifying that 6500XT doesn't use temporal dithering tho 👍

                    Is there any relatively modern card that I should test? Summarizing this thread only a W5500 is a relatively safe bet in terms of eye strain?

                    Allekss do you experience physical eye pain due to your setup or is it more neurological. By that I mean symptoms such as brain fog, vertigo, etc…

                        Allekss

                        Have you tried Linux? You can try it from a just booting from an USB stick as a live image.

                          Clokwork it starts with eye pain and if I continue i get brain fog and sometimes i can not speak properly. If i don't use PC/TV for a week it returns to normal . Strange

                            machala Yes, I meant that.

                            With the 1700X I was stuck with W10 1809, then I tried to upgrade to 2004 and it was a disaster.

                            So I went back to 1809 and a year later I tried to upgrade to 21H1 and it was fine.

                            So I'm currently using 21H1 on the 1700X+RX 480, while the 7900 seems to give me problems with 21H1, both with the RX 480, nvidia 1660 super and the integrated GPU.

                            I have a feeling it is a motherboard problem but I have no certainty.

                            I may try to install W10 1809 and see how it goes but I am losing hope.

                            I'd like to try a 13700K but I'm afraid to spend another 1000 euros and end up with a mountain of hardware to have to sell.

                            EDIT: Another option I have is to upgrade the bios to my motherboard (crosshair vi hero) so I can install a 5700X/5800X3D on it and stay that way for another couple of years.

                                Lauda89 Very weird indeed, and not very encouraging. My MB is a Gigabyte with the B660 chipset and a 12400 intel CPU. I saw the same issues with MSI B660 motherboard wth an i3 12100F.

                                Could it all be the chipset? Some chipsets have issues? Or specific motherboards have issues? Definitely not sure you should go for the 13xxx intel. Better approach might be to buy complete PCs and return them if you find them unsuitable. And once you test something works, you can build your own system using exactly the same HW.

                                I opened a topic here half a year back asking whether people believed it could be the motherboard affecting this issue, generally people did not believe that. So I built a PC and then started to buy one graphics card after another to find the right one. And none of them was OK. It must be the motherboard I fear 🙁

                                And the 1660 Super is OK in your ryzen 1700 system?

                                    machala "And the 1660 Super is OK in your ryzen 1700 system?"

                                    Unfortunately, no. This system gives me problems connected to all monitors I have (an old benq 1920*1200 CCFL that I can use with Accenture laptop and my alienware 240hz) and to all GPUs (the 7900's integrated, RX 480 and 1660 super).

                                    The old motherboard is a crosshair vi hero (X370 chipset) and the current one is still an asus rog B650A. The bios has the same graphics and menus but the new motherboard has horrendous output on my monitor, already from the bios! it seems to me there is something wrong! I also updated it last night to the latest version but nothing has changed.

                                    I will give it one last try this weekend installing W10 1809 and if it doesn't work out I will try to sell the PC to someone.

                                    Can you give me your exact model of motherboard? I could buy your MB and a 13700K so much they should be compatible!

                                        Indeed I might try to buy an already assembled PC from ZNXT and in case make the return.

                                        But first I want to try to change monitors to an LG 27GR95QE OLED 2K 240HZ monitor! My dream and I've never had any problems with OLED devices except for the iphone 14 pro, so I'm pretty optimistic!

                                        Lauda89 Why would you be getting the same motherboard as I have when I'm telling you it's already bad! It's a GIGABYTE B660 GAMING X, the large one with 3x M.2 slots.

                                        I am also not sure we understood each other with the graphics card… is the 1660 super bad too when you install it in your old motherboard (crosshair vi hero with ryzen 1700)?

                                            machala Sorry, I understood that with the gigabyte you were able to solve the situation.

                                            I only tried the 1660 in the new PC with the Ryzen 7900! I don't want to try it on the old PC.. it's the only problem-free PC I have and I don't want to risk it.

                                                Lauda89 You know what? I totally understand what you mean… I am in the same situation with my old intel haswell-based system with a 660…

                                                and again, no the Gigabyte motherboard is bad, very similar symptoms to what you describe with your AMD system. That's why I believe there's no guarantees you would be good with a 13xxx intel system.

                                                  Lauda89 Can you please tell me what type exactly is your new motherboard? Name and manufacturer… Many thanks.

                                                      5 days later

                                                      JTL have you tried radeon 5700? seeing them for $200

                                                      • JTL replied to this.

                                                          reaganry No, but while I'm still performing more research I have reason to believe that conventional Radeon cards may not be equivalent to the workstation variants.

                                                              I try steam deck 64gb and found that steam deck very please for my eyes. Zero eye strain. Steam deck is no dithering.

                                                              Lauda89 Just an update..

                                                              I installed W11 with the latest updates and am using the 1660 SUPER with the DVI --> HDMI output of the monitor.

                                                              With the DVI output, the situation has improved, and it gets even better by setting limited RGB. Let's say that with DVI + limited RGB I can use the PC. It's not perfect because I can't stay relaxed, but for playing with it 2/3h is ok.

                                                              Unfortunately with this setting, the monitor colors suck and I am limited to 120hz (my monitor is 240hz).

                                                                  4 days later

                                                                  Received a Gigabyte 6650XT Eagle. Immediate eyestrain with both Windows 10 22H2 and Linux. Connected via Displayport. Super Resolution enabled. Patching my non-dominant right eyes results in no eyestrain. Will get an eye exam and possibly prism glasses this week. If that fails do make it better I will try the new Intel Arc GPU then W5700 then W5500.

                                                                  hayder1983

                                                                  I don't believe font rendering to be an issue for me. I suspect dithering.

                                                                    Yes the 6000 series has dithering always on.

                                                                      hayder1983

                                                                      At least one person also reported eyestrain with an RX5000 card also…I only hold out hope for the 5000 workstation cards.

                                                                        11 days later

                                                                        RX 580 ARMOR 8G. I used Dvi only. I had an LG wtp227pf. I had never eye pain with it. Never noticed dithering, but perhaps it was there. Not sure.

                                                                        a month later

                                                                        JTL Could you elaborate on that, the reasons? I am thinking of trying out a Radeon Pro W5700 as think it should be similar in output to your tried and tested W5500.

                                                                            a month later

                                                                            Allekss I posted this elsewhere in the past, but glad more people can see what is going in. Looking at the slowed down temporal dithering animation makes me feel as if I was watching a current iPad or the old OLED tv I returned years ago.

                                                                              I went from Nvidia to AMD 6700 because I saw something online where someone said they got a PC with a 6600 and it was ok, I couldnt find a 6600 so got a 6700 instead.

                                                                              Good Nvidia:

                                                                              1060, 1660s,

                                                                              Bad Nvidia (so far no setting changes could make these usable on 4 different monitors)

                                                                              2060, 3060ti

                                                                              1050ti (possibly bad hardly any use)

                                                                              The 6700 using display port with AMD software slightly reduced brightness, contrast and saturation (talking default is 100 took it down to 90 sort of thing) and it OK on desktop and some applications.

                                                                              Example, on my 1660s everything is ok apart from some games.

                                                                              On the 6700 some common games are ok, but ones that were not on the 1660s are now ok, but ones that were ok on the 1660s are now not.

                                                                              I do not know why this is. the 6700 must be processing some things differently with newer game engines perhaps.

                                                                                dev