Seagull Good work - this could provide some interesting results if you are able to do side by side comparisons of dithering on a 'good' setup and a 'bad' setup using the same hardware.

Since I have a laptop here that I can use for 8 hours a day on Windows 10 1511 with the graphics adapters disabled, but not for more than 30 minutes on build 1909 in any configuration, my capture data could be very helpful to analyse?

Did you capture this using an external capture card on a separate machine? I'm guessing screen capture software wouldn't work even if it's 120fps?

    si_edgey

    Its all captured using an a capture card in a second PC, you are right, screen capture software don't work for GPU dithering.

    Windows is tricky, I've not been able to find any temporal dithering which I can attribute to windows. Whenever I test intel integrated GPUs, I find no temporal dithering. If windows was using temporal dithering, I would always see some temporal dithering, regardless of which GPU I test. I believe people when they say they have a problem with windows, but either its not temporal dithering, or its very hardware dependent. All my testing is done on desktop hardware, so that could be a factor.

      Seagull Could I ask what capture card you're using? If it's not ridiculously expensive I could pick up the same card, use the same settings and send you my laptop captures as I have a desktop PC here I can use for recording?

      That's interesting that you're not finding any temporal dithering in Windows - perhaps it's exclusively an Intel mobile GPU issue?

        Added an update to the original post exploring colour palettes.

        Update 2 explores colour settings.

        • KM replied to this.

          KM

          I must have missed that or I'd have tried it sooner. I have an AMD RX570 and a GTX550 here to try next. Unfortunately I have no newer Nvidia cards to hand.

          Would be great to know if Chrome or Firefox do something while Full RGB is on. As the current versions give some of us eye strain on known-good cards.

            KM

            On the GTX 660, RGB Full, no dithering with chrome open.

            Last Update (I think) trying this stuff out with different cards.

              tfouto

              I haven't tried it out yet, but I expect it to be fine. If you can, it'll be in the colour settings for your gpu.

                Seagull I tried on Windows 10 1909 yesterday, and frankly, it seemed no different, but i just used for a couple minutes. My daily pc is other Windows 8.1, which is fine. I think there is subpixel rendering on Windows 10. Because fonts seem fuzzy, and sometimes i find difficult to focus on. I also think there is something different about color temperature or color space that changed with latest updates.

                  tfouto No subpixel font smoothing in Windows 10. It's greyscale anti-aliasing.

                  You know, it's funny.. my work managed laptop is a T480 on windows 10 build 1803. Funny thing is, I also have the usb dock it came with, so usb-c to the dock, displayport output from the dock to an old HP displayport to DVI active adapter to my old CCFL monitor, and the backlight looks more stable than on my regular PC which is Win 7, mini-displayport out to active vga adapter to same monitor. The image is fine and I'm confident you all can use it, but there's this subtle background shimmer that isn't there with the T480 setup as-is. One of these days I should look for a mini-displayport to displayport adapter, so I can plug in the same HP to DVI and see how it looks on the Win 7 machine.

                  I was just now playing with a laptop from 2005, was a good one back then. Amazing how fast it is with a SSD drive in it, even after all these years. Anyway the hardware isn't that healthy anymore unfortunately. The screen isn't that good today. There's this shimmer or fuzz that's hard to quantify, almost a snowy moire effect. I think it might actually be the backlight beginning to fail because in one corner of the screen there's a crack (not on the glass, but behind it) from someone having dropped or crushed it. CCFLs don't last forever unfortunately.

                  I'm going to slap OpenBSD on the antique laptop tomorrow probably and see how it compares to XP and Linux which I've already viewed on it.

                  Seagull I changed the colour setting for the GTX660 from default to the other options available: RGB Full, RGB Limited, and YCC444. That screen should look familiar to windows Nvidia users.

                  Very curious, on my GTX970, I only have Desktop Colour Depth on #3. My connection is DVI so perhaps that has something to do with it.

                    AgentX20

                    Just tried out a dvi cable (single link) and saw the same thing with my GTX660. With the AMD card I also recall colour setting options changing depending on the connection type.

                      a month later

                      Seagull Yep i can confirm it. For example, if i use the display port cable i can set 6 bit or 8 bit (there is a BIG difference because with the 8 bit my monitor use the FRC) with HDMI i don't have this option.

                      So, any conclusions to be drawn here? Is HDMI and a lower/different colour depth worth further trials?

                        AgentX20

                        All I can really say is that its worth trying different colour formats on the cards you have if you are having a problem. Whilst my gtx 660 does not dither on full RGB, I can't say if it will be the same for other Nvidia cards. But, I personally would be fairly confident that if I bought a new card I'd be able to find a setting that did not dither.

                        The other, and in my opinion, more important conclusion is that dithering frequency depends upon the colour being displayed. I think this is why people have problems when software updates or changes, steam and chrome for example. The software itself isn't dithering, but if the colours have been changed slightly that will affect how the GPU is dithering and might produce symptoms.

                        4 days later
                        dev