New car, LED screens/lights, PWM

KM THAT'S Right . Because some manufacure of LED use low frequency with PWM to low Cost and increase the LED life.

Lauda89 I think i have some type of eye phorias. No one of the specialists i have visit has confirmed that. The answer I get a lot is, we can’t find any problem, you should try a pair of glasses.

My optician has confirmed that only one eye moves when she moved a pen to my nose while i am watching the pen. I got a set of glasses 1,5 years ago, i am not sure if they have prisms. I tested the glasses for two months without results.

mike Uh, it is too bad that no one noticed that only one eye would follow the pen. It is a pretty simple test.
It is shameful how many ophthalmologists work. It seems done on purpose. When I went to a vision therapy session, the therapist explained how he had to fight the ophthalmologist community all his professional life. He mentioned (in 2014) that especially in Asia there is no vision therapy culture. I am experiencing it myself. I have not been unable to find any support in the past three years in Japan.
Also, I too found that my old optician without a medical degree was the only one to put me on the right track a couple of decades ago. He noticed that my left eye was a bit lazy and recommended me some simple exercises with a pen. They helped, as the Brock string helps to relax my eyes, but sadly there is no exercise which soothes my symptoms in front of a bad device.

AGI Good to hear that an optician put you on the right track. Looks like a good optician is the best way to go.

Back in 2011-2012 i did some simple tests at home with one eye. It was on a screen that was a little bad. At that time I didn’t discover any diffence between one and two eyes. I should have done more and longer test behind bad screens. So when i got a question from a specialist, is it any difference if you cover one eye i answered no. Which i know now is incorrect, at least for me.

Because of that i want more people with same/similar problems to cover one eye and train with bad screens.

About training with a brook string, i got this answer from a Swedish orthoptist - “In Sweden we don’t do training, we don’t believe in it. Only glasses.”

For a couple of months ago i found a specialist that maybe could be worth to meet. But because i have made a lot of progress, i haven’t book a time with him.

https://medarbetare.ki.se/people/tonpan

https://www.sankterik.se/sv-se/forskning/vara-forskare/tony-pansell

Use google translate to translate from Swedish.

@martin should i book a time with Tony?

Ok so after almost 3 weeks of using my Volvo V60 MY21 Rdesign, I can say it is the best car with all digital displays and LED headlights form me now. I've been trying some other's like VW, SKODA, Audi and BMW and there I felt like using new MacBooks after few minutes. First drive with Volvo I felt that this interior is friendly for my eyes it was worst during night drive at testing. In test unit I had HighBeam Led's. In my car I have just regular LED this is very white but after few days I can drive at night with just little strain. I don't use now ambient LED's and all is an minimum level but I can use this car like old ones. No compere to others like Passat which gave me big head pain. So if you considering new car please look at Volvo too.

tomek I can say that you may have a point with Volvos. My bosses XC90 seems ok when I am in the car with him. But i cant buy this one , so I will have a look at a cheaper one to see how it is. Their displays seem more friendly in the eyes for me.

valex13 In my job they will provide me as a company car the new Toyota Corolla. My wife has an older model and it does create me strain. Have you managed to somehow ease the discomfort with the Rav4? Thnx

+1 for Chevy Equinox, paper like feel. Matte TN, no glare, not too bright.

I will be doing this dance soon. My problems are made worse because I want a very specific thing in a car. I am looking at the Subaru WRX and the VW Golf GTI because they have a manual transmission and are performance cars. I will also consider older BMW like 2015-2016. I haven’t even looked at Volvo yet although maybe they made a stick in 2019?

The lighting on my 2014 Ford Fusion (Mondeo) hybrid screens was very bad for me at first but I adjusted. The lighting on my wife's Subarus (2015 XV/Crosstrek, 2018 Crosstrek, 2019 Forester) was an adjustment but now is fine. So I’m hoping even a 2021 WRX will be ok since it uses the exact same displays but as people have noted it is hit or miss.

I was ok driving older VW's. A 2012 Passat was fine. The Golf GTI in the USA has not been refreshed like their other cars have sonic still uses components from 2017 era and I’m hopeful, as I spent some time driving a friend's 2016 with no issues.

Gurm Subaru XV-Crosstrek purchased in 2019 and the dashboard lights are great, no impact at all from the first day.
Same car purchased in the 2020, the dashboard lights are piercing my eyes. Tried it a few times because a colleague owns it. Dashboard lights are more bright than mine, even when dimmed. The dealership swears that 2019 and 2020 models are identical, but probably Subaru changed something.
I think it is a good idea to sit in front of the dashboard for some time and see what it does.

Peter I’ll definitely give it a try. The WRX tends to be leftover parts from prior years - it is basically unchanged since 2017 at this point - so I’m not too worried but I will definitely check it out.

Peter

Bad news - I bought a wrx and it definitely has bad strain for me that can affect me even 24 hours later. I’m going to trade it but now I don’t know for what. I’m looking at an older BMW - before they switched to digital screens (2018 has analogue dials and just one heads up screen in the middle above the dash) - and hoping it is tolerable, as their new (2019 and up) digital screens are reported to be bad. I can also consider Volvo - not brand new but 2017-2019 era - and although those are all digital people here have reported that they are acceptable…

As an aside, if it is LED's in the dash/display bothering you, it is possible in at least some care to disassemble the dash, get to the PCB that drives the display, and unsolder/resolder in new LED's. I heled a friend do this in an old Mazda he had because he wanted everything blue, so we got the PCB out, removed all the red LED's, and put in blue ones.

I do not know if you could replace actual screens, but from an electronics standpoint, as long as the new screen had the same pinout as the existing connectors (or you felt like wiring up an adapter) there's no reason it shouldn't work.

ensete

So I contemplated this. Not sure what the difference in screens is, but let's say I really loved the WRX and wanted to keep it and it was just ONE screen bothering me - I'd absolutely source that screen from a 2019 model and swap them.

Where it's ALL the screens as well as the dials, I suspect there is some inverter that is shitty, or else the entire thing is driven by bad current, or … something.

Gurm

I was curious, so I looked into this. Apparently in the US it is the law since 2018 that all cars must have a backup camera. This means there never again will be a vehicle that doesn't at least have a cheap screen for the radio.

That said, it seems that Mazda has made the conscious decision to eliminate touchscreens from their lineup in favour of button controls and I saw this intriguing blurb "The head-up display that top trims of the Mazda 3 get is now projected onto the windshield. The amount of time it takes the eyes to focus on the head-up display is greatly reduced because it’s now focused on a point 7.5 feet ahead of the driver."

I've never seen a display projected onto the windshield and wonder how that might be for you.

You should test drive the Dodge Challenger. It's an AWD and still comes with manual transmission which I think was part of your original ask.

tomek

I'm going to drive a 2019 Volvo S60 and see what it's like.

Gurm I’m looking at an older BMW - before they switched to digital screens (2018 has analogue dials and just one heads up screen in the middle above the dash) - and hoping it is tolerable, as their new (2019 and up) digital screens are reported to be bad.

A couple of months ago i upgraded my car from a Volvo V70 -11 to a BMW 5-series 2020 with the new live cockpit (all big digital screens). Bad news, I got tension headache that wouldn’t disappear. I have a friend who has a 2018 5-serie, no troubles with his car. So my girlfriend drove and i sat behind her in the backseat, it worked. But driving wasn’t working because the live cockpit was in my field of vision. So after the three weeks with tension headache i sat in the car i the garage with one eye covered for 4-5 times x 12 minutes. After that it works for me!

ensete

First i did training for 3 weeks back in Nov-Dec 2018 which gave me pretty good results. In the beginning of 2019 it took some time for me to go from a iPhone 4S with iOS 7 which was the only working phone for me to a 5S. In the summer I trained so I could use a iPhone 7. In the beginning of 2020 i bought a iPad Pro, had it a month, didn’t work so returned it. In the summer of 2020 I change to a iPhone 11 Pro, i had taking me around 9 month of training before I could use it. Then I bought a iPad Pro again and got it to work. After the summer of 2020 with all the training I discovered that with new screens i got tension, so i coverages one eye for 30-60 minutes with the new screen and then i worked. Have done it on 6-7 screens now and i am so happy for that.

mike

30-60 minutes one time, and it worked sae day? Or 30-60 minutes a day, then that was it, for some period of time, and then it was useable?

Sorry to bug you for more details but I still can't put together your exact training schedule and regime. Could you spell it out in very clear detail? How long per session, how many sessions a day, and how many days before training was no longer needed?

Gurm

Nice to hear that you like nice cars. I have owned a couple of BMW M3, and drove them as they deserved. Back in 2007 i got the chance to drive with Colin McRae, a dream that come true. I have 2 friends that both have got BMW 440 Gran Coupe -18 for some months ago, they’re super happy. WRX is also a really nice car.

I keep my fingers crossed!

mike

I love the WRX - handling, performance, everything - but it may not be… sensible… considering it's my only car most days and I have to do a lot of kid taxi service on questionable roads.

I am strongly leaning towards the 430i Gran Coupe - 440's are in short supply - from 2018 if my eyes can tolerate it (or 2017 which was Xenon instead of LED and had even better dashboard layout), they are really reliable as BMW's go and I can readily get one inside my budget with around 30k miles on it and in pristine condition.

I've never been in a financial situation to own an M car, but seriously an M440 is my dream - all that power but still civil enough to drop the kids off at school.

ensete

I am happy to answer, the biggest problem for me just now is that English is my second language so be patient with my bad translations.

In August 2020 i had trained with one eye for approximately 20 months, not every day, but in many periods. It was then I discovered that 30-60 minutes one time could fix so i could use a new screen which gave me tension headache, and now i have done it 6-7 times.

Sometimes when i have trained, i put my open right hand between my nose and my right eye. So i can see things some meters away, but the mobile screen i can only see with my left eye. Maybe that have worked for me, I don’t know the magic formula, i have trained and test many things.

mike

So it sounds like the "hard part" was the 20 months of multiple days per week single eye training, and now your eyes are strong enough that a quick refresh fixes most problems. I think that's where we all hope to be!

So I drove a 2018 BMW 430i for about 30 minutes today. First of all, what a gorgeous car. OMG.

Second… my eyes are tired, but they weren't during the drive. They were a little tired immediately after, at the dealership, with their weird lighting. I will see how I feel in the morning. So far, promising - far better than most modern cars.

I did, for the record, spend a LOT of time playing with the infotainment system. The rest of the dash was pretty innocuous, TBH. The dials only faintly light up orange until it gets good and dark out, probably the least obtrusive possible coloration.

I'm going to also try to drive a 2017, which has even older screen tech and Xenon HID instead of LED for headlights.

mike I am happy to answer, the biggest problem for me just now is that English is my second language so be patient with my bad translations

Understood

mike In August 2020 i had trained with one eye for approximately 20 months, not every day, but in many periods. It was then I discovered that 30-60 minutes one time could fix so i could use a new screen which gave me tension headache, and now i have done it 6-7 times.

I'm not sure I follow. August 2020 was only 11 months ago. Do you mean "20 minutes"?

What I am interested in is:

1. How many times a day did you use the eye patch?
2. Each time you used the eye patch, how long did you use it for?
3. How many months did you do that training before you were able to use screens without the patch and not get symptoms?

Thanks

mike

Gotcha, thanks for that! I'm comfortable with the eyepatch, but it seems an eyepatch or a pair of glasses with one lens covered should achieve the same effect

The good news is I am about 2 weeks into patching and I can notice a difference. It's not much, but while before I couldn't go any time at all ithout getting triggered, I can go a solid 5 minutes now, so progress is being made, just slowly

ensete

I think we all have different levels of muscular accomodation. Think of it like any other muscle. If your right bicep were atrophied, doing two-handed curls would cause your whole body to hurt because all the other muscles would have to compensate. 

Then, depending on age and health and a million other factors, how long does it take to get from curling 5lbs. to curling 35lbs.? Months, most likely. I used to be able, when I was 30, to curl 35lbs. per arm as a normal workout. Now, getting from 10lbs. to 20lbs. took me weeks, and getting from 20lbs. to 25lbs. took just as long, and that's where I'm at now.

So I think we all have to have patience. I think some of our issues CAN be overcome here, it's just gonna take a WHILE.

ensete

One more thing to think about, before I started training in late 2018 I couldn’t find any screen newer then 2011 that worked for me. I used a computer from 2009 with CCFL and my iPhone 4S with iOS 7. So the first weeks of training I got to the point that I could use at least one screen newer then 2011, which I believe that quite a few can do on this forum without training.

Gurm I think we all have different levels of muscular accomodation.

This is interesting.

Back in 2002 I did a LASIK, because I was nearsighted. After the operation I got like perfect sight on near and really good on long distance. When you do a eye operation, they fix the eye, not the eye muscles.

First I did one eye and was going to wait four weeks before I did my other, that changed to seven weeks. Can something have happened during this time?

mike

Hard to say but I bet your issues would have cropped up anyway, nobody started having these issues until roughly 2010+

Drove a Volvo S60 today. 2019. Eyes a little tired but nothing near as bad as some other vehicles. Going to give it a day or so. I’ll also drive a 2018 this week which has less digital real estate on the screens. And I’ll drive a 2017 BMW.

So this might be moot. My wife's Subaru Forester (2019, every available option) is a car I'm fond of and can tolerate the screens on… and she will blow past the warranty if she keeps commuting with it. I may take over the payments and registration on that, and let her trade the WRX for whatever she wants to commute with for the next two years (she puts 25k-30k a year on the car commuting for work). Then I can take my sweet time finding something I like.

Gurm

Same thing happened to me. My car got totalled in an accident, I could not tolerate modern cars, so I took my wifes old car and bought her a new car

ensete

In this case, it's not "old". It'll last me a decade or longer.

But this has done wonders for my anxiety, as the pressure to make a change/decision is off. 

Gurm

Same here, I'm still driving that car to this day and I am learning about car maintenance to keep it on the road. I also took up electronics repair so I could fix my TV's and computers (and maybe one day phones if I get good enough) so when I find devices that work for me I can keep them running as long as possible.