New car, LED screens/lights, PWM

ensete

I think we all have different levels of muscular accomodation. Think of it like any other muscle. If your right bicep were atrophied, doing two-handed curls would cause your whole body to hurt because all the other muscles would have to compensate. 

Then, depending on age and health and a million other factors, how long does it take to get from curling 5lbs. to curling 35lbs.? Months, most likely. I used to be able, when I was 30, to curl 35lbs. per arm as a normal workout. Now, getting from 10lbs. to 20lbs. took me weeks, and getting from 20lbs. to 25lbs. took just as long, and that's where I'm at now.

So I think we all have to have patience. I think some of our issues CAN be overcome here, it's just gonna take a WHILE.

ensete

One more thing to think about, before I started training in late 2018 I couldn’t find any screen newer then 2011 that worked for me. I used a computer from 2009 with CCFL and my iPhone 4S with iOS 7. So the first weeks of training I got to the point that I could use at least one screen newer then 2011, which I believe that quite a few can do on this forum without training.

Gurm I think we all have different levels of muscular accomodation.

This is interesting.

Back in 2002 I did a LASIK, because I was nearsighted. After the operation I got like perfect sight on near and really good on long distance. When you do a eye operation, they fix the eye, not the eye muscles.

First I did one eye and was going to wait four weeks before I did my other, that changed to seven weeks. Can something have happened during this time?

mike

Hard to say but I bet your issues would have cropped up anyway, nobody started having these issues until roughly 2010+

Drove a Volvo S60 today. 2019. Eyes a little tired but nothing near as bad as some other vehicles. Going to give it a day or so. I’ll also drive a 2018 this week which has less digital real estate on the screens. And I’ll drive a 2017 BMW.

So this might be moot. My wife's Subaru Forester (2019, every available option) is a car I'm fond of and can tolerate the screens on… and she will blow past the warranty if she keeps commuting with it. I may take over the payments and registration on that, and let her trade the WRX for whatever she wants to commute with for the next two years (she puts 25k-30k a year on the car commuting for work). Then I can take my sweet time finding something I like.

Gurm

Same thing happened to me. My car got totalled in an accident, I could not tolerate modern cars, so I took my wifes old car and bought her a new car

ensete

In this case, it's not "old". It'll last me a decade or longer.

But this has done wonders for my anxiety, as the pressure to make a change/decision is off. 

Gurm

Same here, I'm still driving that car to this day and I am learning about car maintenance to keep it on the road. I also took up electronics repair so I could fix my TV's and computers (and maybe one day phones if I get good enough) so when I find devices that work for me I can keep them running as long as possible.

I drove a new Kia over the weekend. It was very uncomfortable for my eyes. The speedometer and gauges were still analogue but they are constantly lit up with white led's, I could only turn them down but still gave me eye strain. Could not turn them off. Fun times.

mike

I used Macbooks with no problems, including LED models, until they changed "something" around 2011. I do know some people more sensitive than me started having issues around 2008-2009 and some people who are very LED-sensitive or PWM-sensitive had issues even earlier. Heck, my grandmother had problems in the 1960's and 1970's with flickery fluorescent lights in her factory job and needed special glasses with a brown tint.

But I think the majority of us were good up through the iPhone 4/4s era, which also included Macbooks through 2009/2010. My personal trouble started when my formerly-ok Macbook (Core i5 Matte-finish UHD, 2010 model) went out for service and came back with a screen I could no longer use. Then lights began bothering me, many LED screens, etc.

The year 2011 was zero problem for me, it was 2012 that really kicked my ass.

But that's just me - others have different experiences.

I have a 2017 Golf GTI and the lights and screen don’t bother me. It’s rare that I have problems with screens in cars. I do get headaches from heads up displays however. It has a very similar effect on me as looking at an OLED iPhone. Pain in the eye and migraine.

I have a BMW. The weird thing is that when set to Apple CarPlay, the display hurts my eyes. When set to BMW’s own native system, it’s totally fine. I think this just confirms that in my case at least it’s the input rather than the display that causes me problems. It’s the same on the TV. My trusty Plasma is fine when watching normal tv on Sky via the Sky Q box. But when watching apps like Netflix or Disney via the same Sky box, it hurts. And totally the same on our second screen, a cheapish LCD.

FNP7

Almost the same for me. At my girlfriends parents a couple of years ago, I could watch “analogue tv” on their LG plasma, but from the digital tv-box i got eye strain. I have a dozen of examples like this. My theory is that different render-technics / codec and so on is what makes the difference.

Same, better or worse if you look with one eye?

mike

Same. And agree on the render etc making the displays problematic.

How do you rate the KIA Ceed/XCeed virtual cockpit? Does anyone have any experience? Because the analog dash obviously flickering PWM (noticed it on youtube videos).

FNP7 You likely have the same thing I have, a sensitivity to color rendering. Nothing to do with PWM or flicker.

Different video sources use different color profiles and different color profiles can cause pain while others do not. Saturation seems to be a key differentiator