• OtherPWM

  • New car, LED screens/lights, PWM

Gurm

I think that led strain problems came around 2008, when Apple and others updated their computers with led screens. I tested a friends MacBook back in what i remember was 2009, and got headache. Is years later I understood that i could have been the screen. I have also seen a couple of person in this forum report troubles earlier then 2010.

But one thing is really interesting for me. My sinus hurts from screen and I take medicine for it every day now. Back in 2007 I also had much problems with sinus when I worked much behind screens, but at that time I didn’t understand the connection between eyes and screens, and at that time I didn’t got tension headache and red eyes. So maybe this problem can be from my LASIK from 2002 or something older.

      mike

      I used Macbooks with no problems, including LED models, until they changed "something" around 2011. I do know some people more sensitive than me started having issues around 2008-2009 and some people who are very LED-sensitive or PWM-sensitive had issues even earlier. Heck, my grandmother had problems in the 1960's and 1970's with flickery fluorescent lights in her factory job and needed special glasses with a brown tint.

      But I think the majority of us were good up through the iPhone 4/4s era, which also included Macbooks through 2009/2010. My personal trouble started when my formerly-ok Macbook (Core i5 Matte-finish UHD, 2010 model) went out for service and came back with a screen I could no longer use. Then lights began bothering me, many LED screens, etc.

      The year 2011 was zero problem for me, it was 2012 that really kicked my ass.

      But that's just me - others have different experiences.

        2 months later

        I have a 2017 Golf GTI and the lights and screen don’t bother me. It’s rare that I have problems with screens in cars. I do get headaches from heads up displays however. It has a very similar effect on me as looking at an OLED iPhone. Pain in the eye and migraine.

        I have a BMW. The weird thing is that when set to Apple CarPlay, the display hurts my eyes. When set to BMW’s own native system, it’s totally fine. I think this just confirms that in my case at least it’s the input rather than the display that causes me problems. It’s the same on the TV. My trusty Plasma is fine when watching normal tv on Sky via the Sky Q box. But when watching apps like Netflix or Disney via the same Sky box, it hurts. And totally the same on our second screen, a cheapish LCD.

          FNP7

          Almost the same for me. At my girlfriends parents a couple of years ago, I could watch “analogue tv” on their LG plasma, but from the digital tv-box i got eye strain. I have a dozen of examples like this. My theory is that different render-technics / codec and so on is what makes the difference.

          Same, better or worse if you look with one eye?

          • FNP7 replied to this.

              mike

              Same. And agree on the render etc making the displays problematic.

                2 years later

                How do you rate the KIA Ceed/XCeed virtual cockpit? Does anyone have any experience? Because the analog dash obviously flickering PWM (noticed it on youtube videos).

                6 months later

                Hi all,
                Currently trying to find a new car

                Looking at a Subaru Outback 2023

                On a test drive there was eye strain (Left eye pulling to left sensation) that i think went a way when I placed my hat over the top of the Driver monitoring system sensor array above the infotainment screen. This uses an infrared camera to make sure the driver is alert. The car can operate with it off.

                Will be going for another test drive soon to confirm. Has anyone else found new Subarus ok?

                EDIT/UPDATE: Did a second test drive with driver monitor system covered with my hat. This helps a lot but I still got some bad eyestrain from the screens in the car. Going to try previous gen Outback.

                FNP7 You likely have the same thing I have, a sensitivity to color rendering. Nothing to do with PWM or flicker.

                Different video sources use different color profiles and different color profiles can cause pain while others do not. Saturation seems to be a key differentiator

                    ensete
                    I'm pretty sure I also have this but i'm sure also sensitive to pwm at least.
                    In general it seems the rendering in new cars dashboards are so "lively", reddish, very punchy and saturated. It's impossible for me to drive those.

                      ensete I'm not sure that it's only that for me, unfortunately. Changing colour profiles alone, on whatever device, doesn't alleviate my symptoms. Changing colour profiles and also disabling dithering, by using a dummy display, is necessary for me and works so I can use MacBooks comfortably. In the car, the BMW display thankfully is fine.

                      Does just changing colour profiles work for you (or anything else based on your sense of what affects you)?

                        FNP7 wow that confirms it for me too. When car play is activated on a 2017 Cadillac Escalade ESV I noticed BAD strain. However native OS seems fine .. weird

                          9 days later

                          More observations:

                          Was a passenger in a 2022 Volvo XC60. Flicker detected on interior cabin lights (via digital camera video set to 1/8000 shutter speed) but not on main infotainment display.

                          dev