I would agree with that. I remember the old cheap CCFLs that didn't have much in terms of phosphor.. the bad ones, things looked almost black and white.
Flicker Free LED Lightning it's the most important thing! Which one to buy?
22 days later
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I use light bulbs from Dollarama. There is one type from Luminous LED that is flicker free for me. https://www.dollarama.com/en-CA/p-a19-60w-led-day-light-bulb/3065795 (Confirmed with 240fps slow motion of my iPhone). In general Luminous LED regular size bulbs have been flicker free for me, while LED Life does flicker.
I also use some light fixtures from Philips with the "Flicker-Free" moniker and they're flicker free for me. They're PAR16 bulbs from Philips. https://www.amazon.ca/Philips-470021-PAR16-Glass-Bright/dp/B072Q3RW3N/ref=sr_1_1?crid=OZB5XO49WGCA&keywords=philips+par16&qid=1697571811&sprefix=philips+par1%2Caps%2C78&sr=8-1
Also confirmed to be flicker-free with 240fps slow motion using my iPhone.
Philips "Flicker-Free" line has been pretty good to me. I have purchased "Flicker-Free" from other manufacturers and they were not flicker free for me.
I just want to add that not all Philips Hue line light bulbs are flicker free. The lower lumens ones were flicker free for me, but the higher lumen ones do flicker. I ended up returning them since even if they go up to say 1600 lumen and can change color they're useless to me if they flicker. They don't advertise the Philips Hue line to be flicker free either, for example this one, https://www.amazon.ca/Philips-Hue-Colour-Ambiance-Medium/dp/B09KZCNRSL/ref=sr_1_3?crid=174Q6W68XUDSO&keywords=philips+hue+1600&qid=1697639187&sprefix=philips+hue+1600%2Caps%2C67&sr=8-3
Nowhere does it claim it's flicker free or that it's "EyeComfort". But the one I linked should be basically their most expensive and most premium light bulb. Both High Lumen and can change colors. Unfortunately it flickers. Well, it flickers under some settings at least. When I changed them to color (then it defaults to a low brightness value) they were okay I believe, but when set them to their highest brightness they were flickering for me.
4 months later
FYI @Jen told me about the 40w Sylvania bulbs (these are also on the Flicker Aliance site). They have amazingly low flicker as measured with my Thorlabs PDA100A2. The flicker is 0.0797%, You can buy them on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019KKEV9G
Here's the waveform. It looks a little jagged but keep in mind this is zoomed 10x and the detector is very close to the bulb.
I've bought a few more bulbs (some Amazon Basics, a Waveform, and some Ikea Solhetta bulbs). I'll report back if I find anything good.
GregAtkinson curious to hear what the best ones are. I have heard the maxlite ones are also good?
It bothers me that no flicker testing site is explicitly testing the bulbs during the warm-up phase. If you are reacting to flicker instantly, even if it's just a fraction of a second, a light that takes a while to reduce its initial flicker is a no-go. Even if the flicker becomes low later on, the bulb would trigger the symptoms every time it is turned on. Granted it is more difficult to test for initial flicker, but IMO it's absolutely mandatory.
I would not have thought this at first, but over time it became clear to me that if a flickering light source causes long-lasting symptoms "within a short time", it actually can take only a fraction of a second. A quick glance can be all that's required. After looking away or turning the light off it would take another few seconds for the symptoms to fully appear. I urge everyone to consider this.
KM I would not have thought this at first, but over time it became clear to me that if a flickering light source causes long-lasting symptoms "within a short time", it actually can take only a fraction of a second
I had a pretty bad headache for hours yesterday, I think caused by testing a flickering bulb for roughly one minute. So short exposures can cause big problems for me as well.
With the next two screen shots, I got all my equipment set up and then turned on the light so I could see the warm-up period. For these two bulbs I didn't see anything odd during that period.
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Here's an Amazon Basics that has very low flicker. I have not tried the bulb myself. It looks way worse than the Sylvania bulb a few posts above, but the Sylvania bulb has amazingly-low flicker.
And here's that Maxlite bulb that also has very low flicker. These bulbs have been working well for me for a long time. It's unclear to me which one would be better for my eyes, but in reality they're both probably fine.
In general, my theory is that thin, smooth, and not vertical/not a high slope lines on a waveform are generally non-headache-inducing (as long as the flicker is 5% or below). Note the Y axis for this screen shot of an incandescent bulb is +-500mv, which is 10x the Y axis for the previous screen shots.
GregAtkinson FYI @Jen told me about the 40w Sylvania bulbs
Please beware - these 40W Sylvania bulbs do cause brain injury for me - just slower than most other LEDs currently sold. We've put them in the common hallways of our apartment building since there isn't a better option, but I made myself sick trying to use them inside my apartment too. I'm back to using incandescents at home. You can see my health and flicker meter testing for these and other bulbs here: https://www.flickersense.org/testing-leds-and-screens
Here's an Amazon Basics 100w 2700k. Not very good. Also, note that the Y axis is twice what the other LED bulbs are. I was hoping for better based on how the 75w daylight one did. Also, to @KM's point, the waveform was even worse when it first lit up, but I didn't grab the screen shot quick enough.
I haven't done it before, but perhaps by increasing the waveform buffer value from 64 to a much higher value, the input could be recorded (buffered) for several minutes? That way we could go back to when we turned the bulb on. Just an idea.
KM perhaps by increasing the waveform buffer value from 64 to a much higher value, the input could be recorded (buffered) for several minutes?
That would work. I don't know how to increase the buffer size, but with Picoscope 7 it seems to capture one waveform per second, so you'd get a minute's worth of waveforms.
The Amazon Basics 75W 2700k was quite bad in terms of flicker. This is on DC mode (meaning that the waveform is not centered around Y=0). The rest of the screenshots I sent were on AC mode (meaning that the waveform was centered around Y=0).
FYI I bought three wattages (60W, 75W, 100W) of the Target brand name (Up and Up) in 3000k. All three flickered badly so I didn't bother to upload the images.
I've got some more bulbs coming: Ikea, another Amazon Basics, Waveform and Yuji.
If anyone has any requests/ideas, let me know. I tested a bunch of others that I didn't bother uploading because they flickered so much.
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Here's one drawback of the Opple (depending on how sensitive you are, especially if you're sensitive to "spikey" waveforms like I am). Here's the 60W Amazon Basics 2700k
Opple shows a fairly smooth ripple every 8 ms. If you're old like me you'll need to zoom on the image to see the ripple.
My photodetector shows a very abrupt blip. This is on AC mode but no zoom.
The flicker percent is about the same (Opple says 1.05% and my device says 1.48%). But for me, the abrupt blip would very likely give me headaches.
The above screen shots were all generated with the bulb warm. Here's what it looks like when it's cold. The X axis is different, but the important thing to note is how far down the flicker goes on the Y axis.
I was disappointed with the Ikea Solhetta bulbs. I'll be returning them. There were a couple that were just OK, but I wouldn't really recommend them.
The first one is the Ikea Solhetta 40W 2700k candelabra. Flicker varies between about 2.5% and about 5%. I haven't found a better candelabra bulb, but I'm not exactly excited about this one.
Also, it flickers quite intensely for the first 10 seconds or so. This is on DC mode...
Once it warms up I think the flicker frequency must be too high for the Opple Lightmaster because it didn't really detect any flicker at all:
Here's a good bulb once it warms up. Ikea Solhetta 40W 2700k e26 base. Flicker is about 0.11%
Note that even when this bulb is warm it occasionally has a spikey waveform like this:
But it takes a few minutes to warm up and here's what it looks like before it warms up:
I tested two other Ikea Solhetta bulbs but they were more disappointing. 60w and 100w, both 2700k and both with e26 (standard) bases. I didn't bother uploading my waveforms. Opple (incorrectly) said there was basically no flicker for these bulbs as well.
The only ones I have ordered but not yet tested are the expensive ones from Waveform and Yugi. Those might make sense in very high-use areas (like my office), but I can't imagine spending that kind of money for every bulb in my house.
In short, I know of three inexpensive bulbs that have low flicker.
- Maxlite 60w 2700k (I've used them for years and they work well for me)
- Sylvania 40w 2700k (I have not tried them)
- Amazon Basics 75W 5000k (I have not tried them)
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I found a couple Ikea bulbs with low flicker. The "Lunnom" line was hit and miss - some styles were good and others were not. There were a couple other good ones but they were in weird sizes so I didn't bother to capture the waveform. And most of them are very low output (roughly 100-210 lm). I'll go back to Ikea later this week and try out the 450 lm globe light.
The first one is only 150 lm, It is a fairly large globe with a standard e26 base. Model number LED2115G1 Flicker percent:
- Using the formula I was using above, (max-min)/(max+min): 0.107%
- Using a more useful formula, (max-min)/max: 0.215%
The second one is only 135 lm. It is a very small globe with a candelabra e12 base. Model number LED2122G1 Flicker percent:
- Using the formula I was using above, (max-min)/(max+min): 0.072%
- Using a more useful formula, (max-min)/max: 0.143%
I'll keep you posted on the 450 lm globe light.
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I found a couple Feit "thin filament" bulbs that are pretty good. The flicker percent is higher, but the waveform has a very thin line. I think for me the thickness of the line (i.e., the noisiness of the light) matters in addition to the flicker percent.
Here's a Feit "Thin Filament" 40w 2700k globe bulb with standard (e26) base. Item number: G2540/H/927CATFIL. Flicker percent:
Using the formula I was using above, (max-min)/(max+min): 0.549%
Using a more useful formula, (max-min)/max: 1.092%
Here's a Feit "Thin Filament" 40w 2700k candelabra (e12) base. Item number: CTC40927CATFIL/2. Flicker percent:
Using the formula I was using above, (max-min)/(max+min): 0.498%
Using a more useful formula, (max-min)/max: 0.991%
Regarding the Maxlite Dimmable 60w 2700k that work for me…. I just got a shipment from Amazon and the waveform is really bad:
It gets better as the bulb warms up, but still not good.
One silver lining is that even the Opple can see it:
I'm going to buy some from 2-3 different sellers on eBay; presumably their stock is older. I'll keep you posted on that.
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New user and recently learned about LED flicker… are Waveforms worth it? I read on "Flicker Sense" they're great new but they eventually begin to flicker over time which was super disappointing.
Tested a good number of bulbs and by far the best through iPhone 240fps slow motion has been 60W Phillips White Dial Flicker-Free Frosted Dimmable A19 Light Bulb. The other Phillips versions do not come close, even its 100W version and the hyped Flicker-Free Frosted Dimmable A19 Light Bulb I saw in the Youtube LED review video.
I need to find some bulb to fit in 9' ceiling Kitchen… was going to go Waveform A12 because its the lights we use the most, but now not so sure. Currently using BR30s, any recommendations in 3000K?
