I’ve been testing the 13 Pro today, it’s massively improved over the previous OLED iPhones. I believe it’s 480Hz PWM (The 12 series was ~226Hz IIRC), and barely seems to be visible with the usual slow-mo camera test.

Not sure I’m keeping it, since I do think it causes symptoms after a while (Though much milder), but I’m very happy that Apple seems to be improving the flicker situation.

Haven’t been able to check the iPad 9th Gen yet, but I’ll do that soon.

Anyone else testing the iPhone 13/ 13 Pro? I’d be curious to see if anyone else notices the improvements in flicker.

    bkdo

    I tested a iPhone 13 Pro yesterday, only for 10 minutes in a store. It looks good, but it’s hard to say if it’s better or worse than my 11 Pro in that short time. If it’s better I will definitely upgrade.

    I also updated my Apple devices from iOS 14.8 to 15 yesterday, feels the same.

      bkdo Not sure I’m keeping it, since I do think it causes symptoms after a while (Though much milder), but I’m very happy that Apple seems to be improving the flicker situation.

      When you write “though much milder”, what are you comparing with?

      I ordered a iPhone 13 Pro today, can’t wait to try it out!

      • bkdo replied to this.

          iOS 15 seems OK. However, the new built-in Weather app causes causes me pain quickly. It's far less readable* than the old app. I'm not sure if this is the problem, or if there are some rendering changes which are only implemented in redesigned apps. The new Safari is OK.

          * Using iPhone SE 2020. Apple obviously did not consider this screen size when redesigning their app.

          • bkdo replied to this.

            mike

            Compared to previous OLED phones, the symptoms are a lot less noticeable in my experience. Still there, but I've been able to use the 13 Pro for days now without a huge migraine or anything. Still going to return it, since even mild eye strain/headaches are a dealbreaker.

            degen

            Interesting, I wonder why the weather app in specific is affecting you. What symptoms do you get from it?

            --

            Also, I updated my iPad 7th Gen from 14.6 to 14.8 a while ago, and it's been causing eye strain ever since. I can't seem to find any differences in flicker though ☹️

                For reference, I have not been able to use a MacBook since pre-2011 and I have been quite picky with iPhones. The last iPhone I have kept was my iPhone 8 which I could use in short bursts of maybe 10-15 mins throughout the day comfortably. Usage late at night would likely trigger a migraine the next day.

                I picked up an iPhone 13 Pro as I have had good success with a PC with adaptive refresh G-Sync technology (read about that journey here if you like!) and have been using it solidly for a few days now, and so far I am having huge success with it.

                The 120Hz ‘ProMotion’ adaptive refresh rate is extremely crisp and my eyes feel unusually relaxed when looking at the screen compared to any other Apple products. Extremely impressed so far as I was expecting this to be going right back.

                Fingers crossed others have the same result - it’s early days for me but I’ve got 3 days x 3 hours of use from it under my belt without major eye strain or migraine which is very unusual for me. I will report back if anything changes.

                Hoping to see the same technology in MacBooks in 2022.

                ***Update Below***

                  si_edgey

                  I found this on YouTube, Marques Brownlee reviews iPhone 13 Pro. About 2:15 in the video he compares 60Hz to ProMotion (120Hz). You can see the 60Hz screen flicker, and lags when scrolling. ProMotion looks perfect.

                  In 2-3 weeks i will get my iPhone 13 Pro, can’t wait.

                      si_edgey

                      wow this is great news!! Hope it continues like that, would be a major success for you and a good indication for all of us. Let us know how it feels in a couple of days.
                      And usually Apple tries different new things on the Iphone and then implements it on their macs, so that would be a good thing.
                      I will visit a phone store so i can try for a few minutes the Iphone 13.

                      good luck

                        Got an update here in case anyone is going out to buy an iPhone 13 - I have had some eye strain and headache symptoms for the last 2 days after I decided to play games on the phone for a couple of hours. It feels very similar to mild symptoms I would get from 30 mins on a MacBook.

                        I haven’t played games on a phone in years as it always triggers me, so it was the ultimate test but I was feeling confident.

                        Since then the phone seems to exacerbate the symptoms just using it normally, but I did use it without issue for 3 days. I’ll let things settle a bit and see what happens - I still have 7 days to return it if there are any issues. I’ll miss the amazing camera and those glorious first days with no symptoms if I have to!

                          si_edgey

                          Sorry to hear that it’s giving you some trouble. I actually had a very similar experience - the first few days were virtually symptom-free, then I started getting headaches. It culminated in me feeling extremely nauseous, and that’s when I decided to give up on it.

                          —-

                          Anyway, does anyone have any experience with the other new Apple devices? I’ve also tried the iPad 9th Gen and it gives me the usual symptoms, anyone else have luck here?

                              bkdo

                              Sorry to hear that it’s giving you some trouble. I actually had a very similar experience - the first few days were virtually symptom-free, then I started getting headaches. It culminated in me feeling extremely nauseous, and that’s when I decided to give up on it.

                              That's very interesting - your experience seems to mirror mine. I've been feeling nauseous since yesterday and woke up today with the familiar brain fog, low mood and nausea that I remember from my MacBook days. Using the phone seems to exacerbate symptoms quickly now, which is very disappointing after such a strong start.

                              Suffice to say, it's going back to the store - I'm not going back to this feeling again for anything.

                              What is your usable phone @bkdo? My iPhone 8 is usable in 20 minute bursts throughout the day, but not for gaming or anything. I'd really like a camera upgrade more than anything.

                              Also curious to see if anyone is finding positive moves with new Apple hardware. I guess my next test will be of the new mini-LED screen tech in MacBooks next year.

                                  si_edgey

                                  I feel really negative about the future of Apple hardware. M1 Macbook has the most intense multilayered dithering patterns I have ever seen (as visualized through an e-ink displayed). Apple is going for the most eye-popping and dazzling display possible. They do not care about anything else. Hyperbolic? Maybe, but I really feel this way.

                                  Many of us thought that the graphics driver rewrite for the M1 chip would bring benefits. Instead it makes things worse and the majority of us cannot use this device at all (I realize some can). MacOS Monterey is reported to bring no benefits.

                                  There is a massive thread of MacRumors about Apple's PWM-infested mobile devices which has been going on for years. Not even MacRumors will acknowledge it. Very sad.

                                      si_edgey What is your usable phone @bkdo? My iPhone 8 is usable in 20 minute bursts throughout the day, but not for gaming or anything. I'd really like a camera upgrade more than anything.

                                      I’ve been using the iPhone 8 + since 2017. It’s not perfect eye strain wise, but the symptoms are minimal. Unfortunately, after updating to 14.8, I started getting the usual eye strain and headaches that I get on other Apple devices (XR, 11, iPad Pro, etc). Have you tried any of the newer LCD apple products? From my experience, it seems like the two cutoff points have been the A12 chip and then iOS 14.8.

                                      degen I feel really negative about the future of Apple hardware. M1 Macbook has the most intense multilayered dithering patterns I have ever seen (as visualized through an e-ink displayed). Apple is going for the most eye-popping and dazzling display possible. They do not care about anything else. Hyperbolic? Maybe, but I really feel this way.

                                      I feel the exact same way, their displays/software have only gotten worse in terms of eye strain. I’m hoping that whatever graphics tricks (dithering, etc) they’re utilizing will eventually become unnecessary due to better screens at cheaper prices. Though that’s probably a long shot.

                                          17 days later

                                          ryans

                                          Interesting find! I would love to find a way to quantify the temporal dithering used on displays. Is there a way? A test? A device?

                                            ryans

                                            Thanks for sharing this! I had a theory that these newer Apple LCD devices had some sort of flicker, I could just never find out exactly what it was.

                                              degen M1 Macbook has the most intense multilayered dithering patterns I have ever seen (as visualized through an e-ink displayed).

                                              Is it possible to take a video of this and potentially send it to Apple? Or even just upload it here?

                                              If there is a test for it, and we can point and say this is the problem.

                                                  mike In 2-3 weeks i will get my iPhone 13 Pro, can’t wait.

                                                  Any luck with the iPhone 13 Pro and your patching?

                                                  • mike replied to this.

                                                      ryans

                                                      Got it last week. But are waiting for a Zagg Glass XTR screen protector before I start using it, that will arrive in a couple of days.

                                                      I will keep you posted.

                                                        Interesting.. notebookcheck says the 13 mini is 510.2 Hz pwm, while the pro is half that which is the # we are all used to seeing. Might be better for folks here to consider the non-pro version instead, if they have their hearts set on Apple.

                                                          dev