ensete

Well, during the past 30 years, I confirmed over and over again that my eyes are completely fine, if I don't look at screens that flicker.

Like I said, I have been able to use displays that do not flicker without any problems. Any time I try an OLED phone or a display that has PWM, my eyes get irritated.

I also have done numerous tests with displays that have no PWM at 100 brightness, but have PWM at 99% brightness. Have had my wife change the brightness between 99 and 100. Every time I can tell and she can see my eyes getting red if the brightness is 99.

Now this current situation is very strange though since I don't seem to have any device that would be OK, though no hardware changes were made. Only the excessive use for a short period, which I've also done several times during the past without issues. It's like my eyes or nervous system some how got sensitized to any display device.

  • AGI likes this.

    karthi3219 Thanks. Who knows what is included in that update. The word "cumulative" worries me and it could be more than security updates.

    In the past I never had issues after installing the security patches passed along by my IT admin. I am quite sure that the screen became harsh following January 2022's BIOS update, which sneaked through via HP proprietary software. I now removed that software for good, but…too late.

    I wonder why / how a BIOS update can affect the display. Any idea?

      I can confirm that it is not the Windows 11 version. I have used now 2 different Win 10 and Linux, Raspberry PI machines and my eyes get strained exactly the same.

      It seems that I have some situation with my eyes that they got extremely strained duo to excessive Twitter browsing and now they do not seem to recover. I felt better after not using any device for 2 days, but then when I used my phone which previously was fine, for 30 minutes, my eyes got strained as if it would be a PWM device.

      16 days later

      I went to the eye doctor today. I got the eye drops that paralyze the eye so that the eye can be examined.

      What a relief that was. My red eyes resolved soon after my pupils were dilated. The sense of relief lasted as long as my pupils were dilated. Then when I had to use the computer afterward, my eyes were red again.

      Now I'm testing this Onyx Boox Mira. Not a good experience really and if I'm able to get used to work with this, I'm not sure if this will resolve the red eyes. I kinda suspect that my eyes have somehow sensitized to focusing to near distances altogether.

      Previously it has been the PWM (for 30 years). 2 months ago, my eyes or nervous system seemed to get fried after period of heavy use and some offending PWM screens. Even several days without any screens will not help. Half a day of computer usage (previously OK devices) gets my eyes bloodshot.

      I have been experimenting blocing my non dominant eye and it seems to help, but I have to test for several days to be sure. And in Teams video, I cannot really be blocking my eye, as this would raise too many questions. Nowadays many people and customer want to have video enabled.

      A really weird situation, I hope it somehow resolves when I use this Mira and block the other eye when ever I have the chance.

      Eye doctor again was one of those who had not had a single patient in 10 years with the same issue.

      He noted that my eyes are dry and prescribed lubricating drops.

      One thing I have found just a week ago, is that Antihistamine drops help a bit and when my eyes are really red and irritated after a workday, the allergy drops help a bit, but of course they only mitigate the inflammation that is caused by they actual problem.

      I do not think this is a windows or device issue anymore, this is an issue with my optic nerves struggling to focus at near distances. I should still try this Mira and also try to read a book in natural light to see if my eyes get similarly irritated by just reading a book. I hope not. Then I would end up a cyclop.

      I tried to ask the doctor to prescribe the paralyzing drops, so I could at least test the hypothesis, that my pupils are getting strained by the attempt to focus when looking at screens. but of course, doctors can rarely think outside the box. If it is not in the book, then they have no solution.

      This is really an emergency as I cannot even watch the television in the evenings, much less use a phone. Still I wonder why even TV that is 4 meters away is irritating, since that should be sufficiently far away.

      Luckily I do not get any headaches or migraines, it is the dry, red stinging eyes after a workday. No lubricating drops help at all.

      Isn't it just weird how the nervous system can just out of the blue at some day kinda resign itself and start having problems and cannot recover?

      I was hoping that if I could apply the paralyzing drops every night, my pupils could somehow really recuperate and then would be able to withstand a day of computer. But of course, the doctor was not willing to even discuss it further. It was such a relief and my eyes were white the first time in weeks.

      I'm visiting a neurologist tho specializes in eye-related issues on Friday, so let's hope he has had similar patients. Maybe there would be some drug to calm the nervous system or something.

      I'm also thinking of pursuing the paralyzing eye drop solution still - at least it would be helpful when my eyes are totally fried, to take the redness and the irritation away. Could those drops be diluted adequately that they would not actually totally paralyze the pupil, just calm it down a bit, maybe worsen the sight a bit, but so that I would still be able to work

      • mike replied to this.
        7 days later

        patanol/Olopatadine/pataday is amazing for burning eyes. i think there are a few other newer options too.

        4 days later

        Maxx Then I would end up a cyclop.

        For me training with covering-one-eye have reprogrammed my brain (or what’s needed to be reprogrammed), so today i can use both eyes open looking at screens. For me the training took years, so give it some time and hopefully you will have the same result as me.

            mike Thanks! This is important information. Actually, I have noted that even covering my eye half a day, enables me to use both eyes the rest of the day. But it is always very difficult to know for sure.

            Since the only symptom I get, is red, dry and irritated eyes, I can sometimes use e.g. a new laptop for a day and think it is OK, but then I take a look at the mirror are see that my eyes are bloodshot and watery. So all things that I try, might need several days if not weeks to be sure if it really helps.

              mike you probably already mentioned this in another post, but I can’t seem to find it: did you train with your dominant or non-dominant eye patched ?

              • mike replied to this.

                  Non-dominant patched. Mostly because the non-dominant has a corneal injury so I can see as well with it. (No, the injury is unrelated to this problem, problem started 15 years prior to the injury)

                  denise_eca

                  Non-dominant eye covered from screen and both eyes open looking. I haven’t done any classic pirate-patching.

                      mike you keep your hand in front of your eye the whole time? Or you worked out another system to cover you non-dominant eye without having to hold your hand in front of it for one hour ?

                      • mike replied to this.

                          denise_eca

                          I have a pair of Gunnar gaming glasses, have put a paper over the right glass. So I can see to the sides with both my eyes. But not straight forward with my right non-dominant eye.

                          For short sessions I use my hand to cover, and for longer times the gaming glasses.

                              mike thank you! I’m definitely gonna try that! Fingers crossed it works for me too! 🤞

                                I tried the cycloplegic drops. My pupils were dilated and I could not focus properly to near distances for 36 hours.

                                My eyes where whiter than ever, but it seems that the drops somehow paralyzed the meibom glands, because my eyes felt really dry the whole time. But they were not red, as they would be otherwise.

                                This led me to try something unusual: My eyes have always gotten unusually red when consuming alcohol. I was thinking that this might be somehow related to the display irriataiton problem. I tried this by having a few beers. Lo and behold, my eyes did not get red at all. And I must say, my eyes get really disturbingly red when consuming alcohol, so much so that I get comments "have you been crying" or "Have you taken some drugs" when at the pub or so.

                                Now with the cycloplegic drops, my eyes remained clear.

                                So it seems that there is some sort of problem when focusing to displays, where there is always some flicker, even if PWM free. This same issues seems to be brought out by alcohol as well. So it seems that the eyes are having difficulties focusing or keeping the binocular vision aligned when under the influence of alcohol, which makes the muscles work extra hard, similarly when looking at displays that flicker, which produces the red eyes.

                                Has anyone else noted the same, that the redness or eye pain would be brought by alcohol also?

                                And please, I don't need any comments that "you should not use alcohol period, it is unhealthy" that is not the point here. My point is to understand what it is that causes the eye irritation and what could resolve or mitigate it.

                                My hypothesis remains that it is related to binocular vision and some sort of strabismus which is intensified by flicker and alcohol makes it even more difficult for the nervous system to maintain focus so that the stereo vision works.

                                Maxx
                                I feel you man. OLED really messes with me too. More than any other display. I haven't narrowed down fully why yet, it even goes beyond PWM for me. Maybe it's bad frame persistence or MPRT motion blur, I don't know.

                                Nonetheless, here's what has helped me a lot:

                                First, I highly highly recommend the app "OLED Saver". It allows for controlling the brightness without PWM flicker.

                                Next, though I don't need it as often these days I would recommend Rohto Digi Eye. I've tried many eye drop types/brands, but this is the only one that meaningfully works for me. https://rohtoeyedrops.com/products/rohto-digi-eye-digital-eye-strain-eye-drops

                                Third, try covering non-dominant eye. Even simply closing one eye has helped me in a pinch.

                                If all else fails at least make sure you're not in a dark room. Ambient light always helps me with any backlit display, not just OLED.

                                These things have allowed me to use my OLED phone without feeling like my eyes will explode, at least.

                                • Maxx replied to this.

                                    cizeta Thanks. Yes, OLED has been a problem always. Though, interestingly I had Galaxy S2 7´-8 years ago and used it heavily without any strain. Before that I had a HCT LCD with PWM with strained my eyes immediately. Galaxy S3 was problematic after longer use.

                                    The Rohto drops have Benzalkonium, which makes my eyelids swell and makes my eyes even more irritated. Many eye doctors have warned against using anything with benzalkonium preservative as it can cause an allergic reaction.

                                    The non-dominant eye covering is working for me and my eye doctor even recommended it, as she is a leading strabismus expert and has multiple patients who have eye pain or migraines which resolve immediately with eye patching. So this definitely is not some unscientific BS, as an eye doctor also knows about it and recommends it.

                                        I just have slapped what ever piece of tape to my glasses. Working remotely.

                                        But I ordered MIN lens, to be fitted to my glasses. Lets you see my eye, but I cannot see trough it. Draws less atention, in case this condition sticks and I need to patch my eye at the office. Luckily its just reading glasses, so people do not pay that much attention

                                        2 years later

                                        Hello Max, a bit late to join the discussion but i seem to have the exact same problem as you regarding red eyes when using screens, been having it for 15 years now… recently had Lasik eye surgery and they put in those paralizing drops you mentioned and my eyes were completely white for the first time in decades (have never really rested my eyes all these years as im forced to work with screens, but i took 1 trip to turkey for 3 days and didnt use screens at all, and my eyes were finally starting to get whiter.

                                        I wanted to ask these years have you found a solution? man… ive tried so many things, IPS panel, VA panel, older CRT monitor, lowering brightness, blue light blocking glasses, all sorts of drops nothing really seems to help and im desperate im even thinking of persuing some "offline" new carreer that doesnt involve any screens to cure myself.

                                        Thanks in advance!

                                        The first time I had this that caused all displays to irritate, it went away in 8 months and I was able to get back to the previous screens and even tolerated and OLED phone.

                                        But after Covid some 3 months ago, it came back and now I'm back to using only my Lenovo x280 with both eyes without problems and then all other screens with a tape on my non dominand eye glass.

                                        No solution. But e.g. Onyx Boox Palma I'm able to use fine and read books with the backlight on (or frontlight)

                                        dev