ludwig

Thanks so much, this is pretty life-saving, and it's also huge proof that NVIDIA is blatantly lying about the cards not doing any dithering. I wish we could somehow makeeveryone realize this and force NVIDIA to do something about this.
Any idea if the same would be possible if I bought a Ryzen CPU with integrated graphics? Don't wanna change both my MB and CPU for this. If that is true, I might actually go and buy a new CPU. Totally worth it. I am constantly reminded how big of a mistake it is to buy a CPU without integrated graphics, like my Ryzen 3600xt. It is such a handy thing to have when you get into trouble.

There is one more problem with this though, since the MB only has one HDMI output, you can't use a multiple monitor setup, right?

    "Any cheap monitor suggestions that would neither have PWM nor drive me blind with Temporal Dithering?"

    Luckily for your wallet temporal dithering is a software (os/device driver) thing - not a hardware thing. I feel your pain on the equipment cost.

      "huge proof that NVIDIA is blatantly lying about the cards not doing any dithering"
      They are probably talking about while rendering a 3d scene. All cards dither on 2d rendering.

      ludwig So i use igpu intel HD. And voila, my eyestrain is gone. Even if i play a game.in game option i still can choose to use rtx 3070 but without eye strain.

      Makes sense that the gpu cards do dithering your eyes don't like in 2D rendering.

        Michael-Nurse-Dev temporal dithering can also be related to hardware, it’s called FRC (Frame rate control) for monitors

          BloodyHell619 You can find flicker-free monitors on RTINGS (here's a list: https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/motion/image-flicker), and then verify that it doesn't use FRC on https://www.displayspecifications.com

          Problem is that RTINGS uses a photodiode tool that is not powerful enough to detect very high frequency PWM, so they may say that a monitor is flicker-free when it actually has PWM at very high frequency (reason why they couldn't show the 118Khz PWM on this review of the MacBook Air 13 2020: https://www.rtings.com/laptop/reviews/apple/macbook-air-13-m1-2020) but I think that it doesn't happen often

          Only real solution is to buy a monitor that has already been tested by someone for PWM and dithering or buy an oscilloscope to test PWM and a tool like this: https://ledstrain.org/d/1903-gear-used-by-notebookcheckcom to test dithering

          You can also ask the support of a brand the list of their monitors that doesn't use PWM nor dithering (like he did for BenQ: https://ledstrain.org/d/1341-monitors-that-dont-use-temporal-dithering)

            5 months later

            qb74 I'm curious, this topic always intrigued me. I've seen so many people claim temporal dithering is the cause of their issues but no verification in form of video to show it.

            Meant to show this at the time but getting to it now, here's an example of one capture of GPU sided temporal dithering in my lab. Obligatory warning of flashing imagery, etc.

            hxxps://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1234670/233909663-e957ed90-86d8-4972-ba3e-92572b6d1fb2.webm

            If you're curious the differing picture modes are a function of my project VideoDiff, and I suspect the intermittent blanking early in the capture was an issue with capturing at the time. It's really horrid when actually trying to use it like that, so that prompted my attempt to capture this.

              4 days later

              ludwig

              Then i change my prosesor from ryzen 3500x to i5 12400. And i switch the display hdmi from gpu rtx 3070 to the hdmi motherboard. So i use igpu intel HD. And voila, my eyestrain is gone. Even if i play a game.in game option i still can choose to use rtx 3070 but without eye strain.

              Can you provide the full intel MBoard name and bios version?
              OS ver. ?(+build)
              intel HD driver version ? display model?

              did you try display port or only hdmi ?

                2 months later

                ludwig
                Can you provide the full intel MBoard name and bios version?
                OS ver. ?(+build)
                intel HD driver version ? display model?

                  Oh, I know what you mean! I had a similar problem last year.

                  I had terrible pressure and eye pain from my Radeon rx 570 video card

                  Severe eye pressure from the Nvidia 2060 super.

                  Not as much with the Gtx 1080 ti, but still not comfortable to use

                  In the case of gtx 1660s everything is great! But it is too weak and hot, noisy. But I'm afraid to buy something new

                    BloodyHell619

                    I have a Palit 1660s stormx oc, with one cooler

                    I previously used a 1050ti and a gtx 770, there were absolutely no negative effects from them either

                    • glvn replied to this.

                        Luminous i had 3070 and give me eyestrain even i try everything there is still eyestrain. And now i think i found a solution. Before that i haye eyestrain use pc rtx 3070 and ps5. And i buy steam deck and steam deck very very good for eye, zero eyestrain, and i see banding everywhere, maybe steam deck dont have dithering. And then i play pc game via streaming use moonlight on my steamdeck, I play ps5 use chiaki on my steam deck. And no zero eyestrain. At least i can play without eyestrain anymore

                            ludwig

                            i had 3070 and give me eyestrain even i try everything there is still eyestrain.

                            can you write the full name of the model 3070 ?
                            and type of video memory? (from gpu-z)

                                Luminous

                                I have a Palit 1660s stormx oc, with one cooler

                                can you write type of video memory? (from gpu-z)

                                    ludwig

                                    I'm sorry for the stupid questions, but I'm in a similar predicament (I can't find a modern video card that doesn't make my eyes strain) if I understood your answers correctly, in chronological order your feelings were like this:

                                    So i buy rtx 3070 gddr6 samsung and i can use it, dont hurt my eyes, i can play game for hours now. Only feel too bright, but dont make eye strain and no headache.

                                    I have RTX 3070 and give me eyestrain, eye burning sensation, feel sleep all day, and headache.

                                    My solution: use hdmi from monitor to motherboard. I use i5 12400. So when u browsing, watching movie it will use igpu. When play game, it will use rtx 3070.

                                    i had 3070 and give me eyestrain even i try everything there is still eyestrain. And now i think i found a solution. Before that i haye eyestrain use pc rtx 3070 and ps5. And i buy steam deck and steam deck very very good for eye, zero eyestrain, and i see banding everywhere, maybe steam deck dont have dithering.

                                    Do I understand correctly that as a result you did not achieve an acceptable result on PC? (neither with 3070 nor with iGPU)

                                    model 3070 was the same in all these cases? Did you have the same nvidia driver version?

                                    have you tried Win11 22H2 ?

                                    have you tried NvColorControl to disable dithering?

                                    https://www.avsforum.com/threads/2020-lg-cx%E2%80%93gx-dedicated-gaming-thread-consoles-and-pc.3138274/page-21#post-59699820

                                        glvn yes, the ending all that give me eyestrain after i play a week, i have use that software nvcolorsetting but not result. My ultimate solution use steam deck to streaming game. I have use 2 month and no eyestrain, play forbidden west 71 hours, and last of us remake on pc without eye strain. RTX 3070 is still same. i still use win 10

                                            5 months later

                                            ludwig do you use your PC through the steam deck with no strain too? Like normal non gaming

                                              dev