andc You don't need a specialist to check if this is an issue. My recent normal optometrists visits all were able to confirm I had a slight vertical convergence issue (that I have known about my entire life) but in my case it's irrelevant as I have monovision anyway (one eye sees at a distance and one up close). I learned this when young and trying to wear glasses that corrected the close eye for distance as well and things were double and blurry. It's never been an issues for me and is not the cause of my eye strain as demonstrated by the fact I don't get strain on older devices AND correcting the vision and imbalance doesn't help the strain...so monovision is still working fine for me in all instances and irrelevant to the strain.

Point is if you got to a normal optometrist or two and ask to be checked for it they can easily do it with that standard machine they put in front of you when you read eye charts. No sense in going down this road if you have no convergence or accommodation issues at all as eye therapy is very expensive, takes a long time, and is of dubious benefit often. If you have a clear eye problem and want to try there is no health reason NOT to...but I know how desperation gets you to put hope in things and spend lots of money and the letdown can be huge. Since this is not a fast treatment I'd not waste my time and money if I had no documented issue. It's not some hidden problem...you either have it or you don't and prism glasses (that any optometrist can do fine) can tell you right away if it's your eye strain issue.

      martin Write me the state or city where you live and Ill ask my optometrist to recommend someone reliable in that area.

      Can you also ask about New York City area?

          andc Its easier in and around Europe as they are more connected with my specialist.

          JTL Ill ask about that area.

          ryans Also.

          hpst The treatment cost me close to nothing so far, but the prices probably vary from country to country. So far including the glasses its been about 367 dollars, most of it being the glasses price. It wont cost me more than another 90 dollars before the training is finished. But I have been lucky to find a guy who is also young, interested in this issue and research around it and what new understanding it may bring into his field.
          Theres of course no point to waste money in traning if the glasses they can make do not improve the situation - so thats a good first step. For me they improved it from migraines to discomfort from longer use, meaning there is some connection. And to stress it - they are not all around solution, their features are strengthened to the point that I cannot see farther than 1m with them sharply, it was crafted purely to test the issue. The guy I see about this is a specialist and he told me only about another 2-10 ppl in this country take the field seriously enough to figure this out. So I think who you run into matters a lot.

          If that doesnt work, or help only partially, then it is -
          1. waiting for results for Lyme disease (had to pay for that too, cost me as much as the whole eye training)
          2. getting more precise oscilloscope to measure all I can
          3. trying to get my hands on a sprectrometer to measure light spectrum on all devices and bulbs to see whats up
          4. getting possible new drugs for migraine
          5. getting all neck muscles balanced and fixed (scm, scaleni, all the classical migraine trigger points)
          6. getting media attention through lightaware.org that this issue is serious
          7. Hoping someone makes a color e ink
          8. Moving to a tropical island and teaching surfing, or joining an amazon tribe, never to see displays again

          Id also like to figure out if I can get an iphone thats troublesome, remove its backlight someohow and still make it run, so I can test if it could be only the backlight.

                    martin Thanks! I see it's possible to have Lyme for a long time and not get treated https://www.today.com/health/ticked-10-years-living-lyme-disease-2D80555054

                    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/07/01/the-lyme-wars

                    https://www.amazon.com/Better-Solving-Mystery-Chronic-Disease/dp/1250019400

                    https://lymeconnection.org/news_publications/meet_the_lyme_disease_experts.html/title/dr-richard-horowitz-latest-treatments-in-lyme-disease

                    • andc replied to this.

                        I made a short survey about Daily Life/Health/Led Strain Problems. Maybe it will allow to find some common patterns in daily life of people with led strain problems. That could work as additional triggers for led issues.
                        Survey thread: https://ledstrain.org/d/404-short-led-strain-daily-life-surv
                        Survey: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdh1-dNpMHlKDFwb_eVttWZ_rrVrh_hOMLd15GtGtVVb-hrJQ/viewform?usp=sf_link
                        Survey is very simple so any feedback and criticism are welcome.

                        ryans @martin

                        Hey, I'm doing the excercices on my own under the instructions from my optometrist. Last week we decided to vary my excercies in order to get more eye flexibility. Moreover he also told me, that I have to do the excercices for at least 6 months.

                            ryans
                            That's right - Lyme is a very sneaky disease. It can cause almost any type of issue, is hard to be diagnosed (there seems to be no 100% sure way of testing it) and can even hide for many years within one's body, so you may think you're cured and it will get back after several years.
                            On top of that it's cured by a long antibiotics therapy (1 month or longer), which may end up in other issues if you don't follow the diet, or don't use probiotics. If it wasn't enough during this therapy you may start to feel much worse due to Herx effect. I don't recommend it to anyone 😉

                              WOW! I just had one of these occur. My second one this year:

                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scintillating_scotoma
                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scintillating_zigzag_scotoma.gif

                              During my lunch break at work today, I went pretty hard on a flight of 200 stairs with a pretty steep incline, 5 sets, and it was also a pretty nice and sunny day. I'm not sure whether I overexerted myself, or if it was the bright sun.

                              The other time this happened this year was in the spring when the NHL playoffs were on, lol. I drove to my parents house to watch a game and there was a low sun as it was spring at the time. While watching the game on my dad's OLED TV (The same one as I presented here: https://ledstrain.org/d/175-oled-tv-same-issues/91), one of these started to happen halfway in. However, the sun was setting at the time and as very bright over the horizon out of my peripheral vision. I thought the OLED TV had done it, since the jury was still kind of out on it, but I didn't have any LED exposure today. Also, I am usually able to watch a 3 hour sporting event without much difficulty on the OLED TV.

                              What's strange about these phenomenon is I don't get any headache or ill-effects afterwards. The "attack" is pretty intense and lasts about 20-30 minutes, and then it spreads to the corners and ends. The "Signs and symptoms" describes the issue exactly. I had this very bright flashing squirmy wormy in my central vision after coming back from my Stairmeggon lunch break and grabbing my lunch bag out of the fridge. It was very intense at first, then started to spread to the corners, almost like spreading butter on bread. Once it had migrated more to the corners, my central vision was clear again, and I could read again, but then the peripheral was out. At it's worst point, I'm almost completely blind in one eye for a few minutes (left eye) until it spreads out of the way.

                              If I recall correctly, I've had these my whole life, even since a kid, but I just thought they were normal and that everyone got them. I must say, although a bit scary, they are one heck of a fascinating phenomenon! Just another oddity to throw into the enigma!

                                Interesting, that just proves that many of us indeed may be migraine sufferers with specific triggers. Which kinda sucks, as those triggers right now seem to be in all tech.
                                I got checked for Lyme disease, best test there is (westernblot) and interpretd by a friend doctor, its negative, I do not have Lyme, nor have I ever had it.
                                The theory on the website about visual center processing being attacked by some virus is still interesting to me. I will finish the visual therapy and see what happens after.

                                Harrison Yes, same here, 4 months to see any change, 6 to see possible cure just like with the glasses. Maybe more. I dont care, Ill do it as long as I have to if it helps.

                                  MagnuM It may be worth getting your eye pressure checked out - I had these symptoms which turned out to be due to high interocular pressure.

                                  Not saying that's happening in your case, but something to rule out.

                                      diop

                                      Hey, measuring the eye pressure is usually done every time you visit an eye doctor in my homeland. It was measuerd many many times and if there was a problem, I'll know that.

                                        14 days later

                                        What do you think of this phenomenon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photic_sneeze_reflex?
                                        It makes you sneeze shortly after you are exposed to bright sunlight and then the reflex stops for 24 hours. The theories say the cause may be that the optical nerve is unusually close to the trigeminal nerve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigeminal_nerve). Plus a statistical significant part of the "sufferers" have a nasal septum deviation.

                                        Might this be a valid theory why some (many?) of us react to flicker? Because the optical nerve is unusually close to some other nerve, and so the other nerve gets electrical signals which it shouldn't?
                                        The German entry of the photic sneeze reflex says sudden brightness causes many action potentials to be conducted over the optical nerve, triggering the trigeminal nerve (which they shouldn't) -> sneezeing.
                                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_potential: "In physiology, an action potential occurs when the membrane potential of a specific axon location rapidly rises and falls" - which is probably exactly what happens when exposed to flicker.

                                          KM I've had the sneeze with sunlight problem even before I had this "problem".

                                          I've heard some studies claim it's related to photosensitive epilepsy, but that could be me remembering wrong.

                                            martin Write me the state or city where you live and Ill ask my optometrist to recommend someone reliable in that area.

                                            Hi @martin , I know it is some time now since this was offered but if your optometrist would know a good one in Berlin Germany that would be awesome. Thanks!

                                            Edit 1 month later: Ok, went to an optometrist close to my place and she also checked for convergence. This does not seem to be my issue. So no need to check for one @martin 🙂

                                                24 days later

                                                deepflame I can ask but they are really busy now, its hard for me to even get them to reply to me. But you can write in english here - https://www.vysetreni-zraku.cz/ and they should be able to reply and recommend some place that they trust. If it was a quick check Id go elsewehere. Check the article.

                                                ryans This is great. Proves that you really need to see someone who does proper testing and that 5
                                                min examination in an office really wont do.

                                                I have been doing my exercises half-wrong for the last two months, strenghtening the already strong eye muscles and not the weak ones. I had to start over with half of it and I must say, it really does something even so soon. My camera display since 2 weeks ago when I started does not give me the stinging pain anymore, it changed into a pressure and even that takes longer to develop than before. I hope by the end of the therapy all pressure/pain will be gone. Also the proper exercises give me nausea, headaches, eye pain and when I overdone it, all displays were painful just like when I was exposed only to the painful ones for too long. I am curious how it will progress now.

                                                In simple terms the exercises are a way of building maximum range of eye motion while maintaining fusion (single image, no double vision) in both convergence and divergence (one is usually overpowered or weak or more combinations). It is like if you cant extend your arm due to wrong muscle tension and do exercises to balance it out.

                                                      martin deepflame I can ask but they are really busy now, its hard for me to even get them to reply to me. But you can write in english here - https://www.vysetreni-zraku.cz/ and they should be able to reply and recommend some place that they trust. If it was a quick check Id go elsewehere. Check the article.

                                                      Thanks Martin, but I think I have "solved" the main problem already. I got new glasses now with blue light filter and less grades that makes focusing close-up easier (I am near-sighted). In addition I got an old laptop that does not dither at all under Windows 7. So I am pretty happy currently and would not need anything in that direction anymore. But thanks a lot for answering!

                                                        a month later

                                                        Hey guys,

                                                        I wanted to come up with a summary of my health topics so far. However I've to say that it is ridiculous.

                                                        So this are my main health problems:

                                                        • eyestrain (of course)
                                                        • bruxismn - grinding my teeth
                                                        • sleeping problems - sometimes I am fully awake after 2hours of sleep - maybe due to the bruxismn
                                                        • ENT Problems, especially breathing truth the right nostril and pain in the right frontal sinus
                                                        • sometimes a high amount of "stress" in the body, especially on heavy bruxismn and bad sleep nights
                                                        • a permanent activated immune system (doctors told me that) - the body is fighting against something

                                                        These problems weren't here at once, they all appeared with a distance of some years, however they seem to be highly connected. Also I know that many of you suffer from the same things as me and as a result I think that we shouldn't see the eyestrain issue as an isolated discomfort.

                                                        So with some extended bloodtest some special doctors told me that my immune system is permanentely working and that the body is fighting against something. However (and thats ridicolous) nobody could tell me so far against what my body is fighting. As a result I am a special case under the special cases who visit this mentionend doctors.

                                                        2 years ago I had two surgeries and they removed my tonsils and corrected my nasal septum. I had a dental brace for 3 years and now I'm doing a special orthodontia therapy in order to correct the bruxism. Also I'm doing my eye excercices (convergence) for 4 months now.

                                                        Only these eye excercices helped a little bit, but not as much as I hoped.

                                                        It is not a hashimoto or any other auto immune disease. A doctor meant that I'm not far away from the chronic fatigue syndrome caused by the Epstein–Barr virus, however this diagnose is some kind of inconsistend between two different tests. Another theory is that there is a foreign material in my body which causes this problems. So maybe I'll doing a Lymphocyte transformation test which can tell me if the composit materials of my dental fillings are problematic.

                                                        This theory came up because the bruxismn started 2 months after I got my first composit dental fillings and the eyestrain occured the first time three-fourths a year after that (I purchased a new notebook). Before that time I never had a bruxismn or such heavy eye problems at all. However it's only a idea and maybe there is another root cause of this.

                                                        So I am pretty sure about that there is a health root cause of the eyestrain which makes us more sensitive to all of the different display and graphcis technologies.
                                                        Some of us have more or less additionally health issues, but there is a big connection.

                                                        • jen replied to this.

                                                          I agree, I would expect it to be along the lines of immune system aggravation leading to brain or optic nerve inflammation. An example of this, giardia, an intestinal parasite, can trigger immune system mediated retinal inflammation.

                                                            Seagull Weird, I was under the same line of thinking when it came to speculating that maybe a parasite could cause some of these symptoms (e.g. bruxism, anxiety, etc). I'm not sure where I'm remembering that potential link from. Take that for what it's worth perhaps?

                                                                dev