Welcome to LED Strain!

I just registered to thank Artis...I disabled HW overlay in my android phone and immediately felt relief in my eyes, wonderful!
Also I have a benq monitor (gl2250hm) that I can use quite fine with my laptop and intel hd graphics, but when I use it with my pc (radeon hd 7870) it kills my eyes...I discovered I'm not alone and this makes me happy!

Guys I found a solution, at least for me, the culprit was HDMI !
If I use HDMI i get eye strain both with amd gpu and intel hd 4600.
So I tried connecting the hd 4600 with a VGA cable and guess what? No eye strain...very strange...
Now I'm using windows 10 latest version so I can game using the discrete gpu through the vga cable connected to hd 4600. Crazy uh?

uizz This is not at all strange, there are several users on this forum who reported the same thing several years ago. An HDMI cable can send more data / configuration than a VGA cable.

Hello, I work in quality and knowledge management and live in Austria.

I don't wear glasses, but I have chronically dry eyes.However, I can live well with that (with eye drops). I noticed that certain smartphones and monitors were incredibly tiring for me from the first minute. My eyes burned. I couldn't focus well anymore. I became more sensitive to light, etc. After I returned the problematic device, it always took days to get back to normal. I always thought it was due to the PWM.

In the meantime I am not so sure anymore.
At home on my computer (latest version: windows 10 2004) and my monitor (Gericom GM2600) I never had any problems. Then I did a clean install (Windows 10 20H2) in December and since then I have eye strain.I have already tried on all possible settings. I also went back to old Windows 10 versions, but nothing brought improvement. I have absolutely no idea why the eye strain is suddenly there with the same hardware constellation.

blubb At home on my computer (latest version: windows 10 2004) and my monitor (Gericom GM2600) I never had any problems. Then I did a clean install (Windows 10 20H2) in December and since then I have eye strain.I have already tried on all possible settings. I also went back to old Windows 10 versions, but nothing brought improvement. I have absolutely no idea why the eye strain is suddenly there with the same hardware constellation.

I've had exactly this experience some months back and I'm still hunting for solutions...

AgentX20 Well he has changed the OS version and maybe also the driver version?! It's normal here have this kind of problems. In my case, with the 3 different computers, I can't use W10 2004 and I am still with 1809 / 1903.

Lauda89 Sorry I missed your post. I tried Gram with external monitor and it's better but not perfect. What's interesting, I returned Gram after 45 days (we have some good return policies in Poland), tried lots of devices and bought Gram again a month ago and it gave me totally different sensation than for the first time 7 months ago. This time I "only" get some burning senation in my body, headaches afterwards and blurred vision. Anyway, it was way better than 7 months ago, but still uncomfortable so I returned it again.

Lauda89 I also tried the same OS version as before and the same gpu driver version. No improvement.
Before the clean install I never had problems with any Windows 10 version or GPU driver versions. That's very strange.

Hi all,
I’m new posting but been lurking for a month or so; came upon LED strain while looking for solutions/ reason for my headaches, migraines, eye pain, etc.

I’m from and work in the UK; I’m 38, male and have been using computers, for work and recreation since my Atari ST without any issues what so ever until around 2012. I wear glasses for long distance for past 15 years (ish).

Also to be clear and not to confuse with eye strain, tired eyes, etc.; pre 2012 I could look at any screen, projector, laptop, etc. with any colours, brightness, resolution, refresh rate, far or near the screen, for hours and hours without any issues at all. In fact I don’t think I ever had a headache before 2012.
Some of the posts here describe my symptoms and how I feel exactly after being exposed to LEDs; this makes me feel it’s not something I’m creating in my own head which has been suggested by some medical professionals.

I first noticed this “LED” issue around 2012 when I got a new monitor at work and at the time I couldn’t use it felt like my eyes were being squashed with a terrible headache. Had to swap back to my old CCFL backlit screen.

Then I kinda forgot about it for a year or so until…

I purchased a new “LED” TV; the first thing I watched was strictly come dancing (wife’s choice) for those that don’t know it’s a dance show with bright colours, fast movements and moving camerawork. Straight away I noticed my eyes feeling squashed I wanted to stop watching; but my wife told me I wasn’t use to the new screen and to give my eyes a chance “to get used to it” that was a mistake, I think I watched the whole programme (1 hour long) after I had a terrible migraine for 3 or 4 days all I could do was be in a dark room (I wasn’t fully recovered for over a week). Needless to say that TV went back and I managed to buy a CCFL backlit TV before they were discontinued.
Also around that time I purchased a Samsung galaxy S3 with android 4.3 this is the phone I still use.
I have tried many phone “upgrades” but any phone with a higher version of android (even a Samsung S3 LTE with android 4.4) gives me the same problem as the TV. Similar with iPhone tried loads of different models/ iOS all with similar results.
Now more and more I’m noticing computers that I can currently use fine (zero issues) win7 with pre 2012 hardware/ firmware. Are starting to cause headaches which I think is software related for example latest adobe reader and MS office are unusable and as others have mentioned web browser Firefox, chrome and MS edge all have the same affect and are unusable for any browsing longer than 15 mins. (Any suggestions for a browser to try are welcome)
atm windows 10 gives me the same problem; for example my old laptop was brought in 2008 and I’ve used it with windows XP and windows 7 absolutely fine; zero headaches, migraines, etc. I opted for the “free” windows 10 upgrade (few years back) and within 10 minutes headache/ migraine started. The latest Ubuntu and iOS are similar. (Any suggestions for an OS to try are welcome)
I am noticing more shops with LED lighting, which also causes headaches. However some shops have LED lights but don’t give me a headache which is weird!!

I have been to countless doctors/ opticians who all don’t see any problems; had a MRI scan and also tried visual stress clinic which were fine.

The analogy one doctor gave me is the web cams are working but something is off with the computer. Doesn’t help but that’s all he had to offer.

My current work around is AVOID LEDs and anything new. Use windows 7 until it’s unsupported with an old CCFL monitor.

degenerate

Your story is very similar to mine, I'm also from the UK and of a similar age.

I am not one who gets headaches either but first started noticing issues when I bought my first iMac in 2015. I started having tight eyelids within 5 minutes, almost like bags under the eyes, and after prolonged use felt off-balance, zoned out, and sometimes would get headaches/light sensitivity. I'm usually okay after 24 hours if I avoid anything that can trigger symptoms.

I have also found that no doctor knows about this issue, and being in the UK trying to claim ESA due to this condition seems like a long shot.

I have also noticed recently, as others have too, that even on a 'good' machine, new software is causing issues. I can't use modern Media Players (Plex/Kodi/VLC) and emulators such as Retroarch used to be comfortable but now cause discomfort. Any current gen console is a no go for me, also Fire TV/Smart TV's are not possible either. Strangely I had an MRI that came back fine as well, and nothing abnormal has come back in any health tests I've had over the last 5 years.

If you're desperate to uprgrade past W7, Windows 8.1 might be comfortable for you on your current tech if you use W7 drivers. As it still has support for a few more years, it is an option to consider.

I am a 45 year old Male in the United States. I'm a software consultant/developer so I spend all day on computers for work and have for over 20 years. CRT monitors used to bother me but I could always fix it by increasing the refresh rate, which made them just fine to look at. I could always stare straight into any CCFL backlit LCD screen all day and not have any problems whatsoever. I started noticing problems as soon as the first LED backlights were used in computer monitors, I think my first exposure was a Lenovo Thinkpad sometime in 2006. At first, they were pretty easy to avoid but LED has become increasingly ubiquitous and is getting harder and harder to avoid.

In 2016-17 I bought 4 BenQ RL2460 monitors and have had mostly great success with them ever since. 2 of them I connected to a laptop provided by my current employer. It was an HP ZBook 17 running Windows 7 and, hooked up to my BenQ monitors, felt almost as comfortable as old CCFL LCDs.

The other 2 monitors I attached to a desktop machine that I built in 2017 with an Asus Rog Maximus Hero IX motherboard with Intel HD 630 Integrated Graphics. I always intended to add a graphics card but never got around to it. For most of the time I've had this machine it has been pretty good, though I always noticed it wasn't has comfortable as my Win7 machine next to it.

My problems escalated when my work replaced my laptop with a new HP 850 G6 with Windows 10 v1909 and Intel HD 620 Integrated Graphics. I noticed right away that even my trusty BenQ monitors weren't helping with whatever was wrong with the video signal from this new machine. I now get constant strain and headaches from that machine and have a hard time focusing while looking at it. What's worse, is that my desktop machine is now also bothering me more and I can't tell if I messed it up while experimenting to try to figure out the new laptop or if the laptop has just made me more sensitive in general. I do notice that all screens and even, to a certain degree, all light seems to bother me more than it did before getting this new laptop.

As for phones, I'm on my third Samsung Galaxy S3, which is mostly comfortable to look at, but every other phone I've tried since about 2012 gives me strain and headaches very quickly. I even recently tried the new 1plus with DC Dimming and it still bothered my eyes and gave me headaches. I might try an eink phone when my current GS3 dies.

I have a hard time with modern vehicles since they all have exectronic screens and almost all of the automotive screens are too bright and make use of PWM. We recently bought a 2020 Kia Sedona for the family as it is the least aggravating screen of all the family vehicles we tried. As for my own, I drive a 2012 Tundra with no screen in it and will probably drive it until I die, or somebody finally thinks to solve this issue.

I'm excited to find this forum and hope to give and get much help. I don't understand how Microsoft/Intel/AMD/NVidia can all be doing nothing (or so little) to help us out with this issue. I'm half considering applying to Microsoft's or Intel's graphics departments to get on the inside and start addressing the issue from there. My only trouble is, all my development experience is in higher level business applications and not in hardware drivers. Maybe I can get in anyway, who knows.

jrhack

Welcome, you are in good company here. Screen tolerance is quite complicated, which a multitude of factors. LCD inversion, dithering type & implementation, backlight flicker, blue light and unfortunately for a lot of us, age. The Intel graphics you have issues with uses spatial dithering, where the gpu applies static non-moving noise to the output to fake a higher colour gamut. Your Nvidia cards will be doing the same (did your zbook have a quadro?), however they use temporal dithering, where the static layer changes every frame. To add to this, all LCDs flicker at half their refresh rate using a process called inversion which prevents damage to the LCD crystals.

I'd recommend trying a cheap, flicker free IPS monitor. IPS LCDs have slower response times than your TN BenQ which will take the edge off any flickering whether it is from inversion or temporal dithering. If you've used Nvidia graphics successfully in the past I'd also recommend trying an Nvidia card. I've sometimes found temporal dithering to make a monitor more comfortable.

jrhack You can also try an HDMI->VGA adapter.

Thanks guys! Just one question from these responses: Do many people with our symptoms tend to find IPS panels more comfortable than TN?

jrhack It's the opposite for me. I do find TN (modern ones) slightly better than IPS, but what really makes a difference in my case is WVA panel.

fgrise Quick update on my situation with the MacBook pro 16.
I finally stopped using it at the end of December and the strain/pain/... went away within a few days.
It's a work computer so I have to do something with it. This morning, I decided to test it one last time. Within seconds, I could feel like my eyes were being stretched open, like if someone was shoveling light in my brain.
Anyway, I am in the lucky position that I will be able to give it to another member of our group, and while I have been using my older Dell Precision 5520 without issues, I need to find something more powerful.
Now I am obviously worried of ordering any laptop through work as sending them back is a pain. Any suggestions? Would it be optimistic assuming that one of the most recent Dell XPS should work for me? I have never had a single issue with any laptop/monitor/phone, just the MacBook Pro.

lougro Since you have many options to consider I would recommend holding off on the Dasung until you really have tried everything. I’ll chime in later with some other thoughts about your situation but this is important.