Hi everyone! I just found this forum today after a mental breakthrough about what might be causing my eye strain issues, and I'm so happy to be here. That being said, I'm not nearly as tech savvy as many of you on this forum seem to be--just a woman desperately trying to fix this fairly recent problem of mine.

I'm wondering if I can quickly give a background and timeline of events, so that people here can give me some advice about what to do next? Basically I work from home basically answering emails all day for my day job, and I'm also a heavy reader and write books as a side hustle, so am on screens many, many hours a day. I'm 31 years old, and I have never had any sort of serious eye strain issues until earlier this year, which began to really manifest in the springtime. My personal laptop is a Lenovo ThinkPad with a matte screen, and my day job laptop is a MacBook Pro from mid-2015 with a glossy retinal display. My phone is a OnePlus Nord N200 5G, which I purchased several weeks ago when my last one died. I seem to have hardly any issues (maybe none at all) with the Lenovo and my phone, and I also have no issues with my e-ink Kindle, but I believe the MBP is causing me terrible eye strain--symptoms are dry eyes, a feeling that verges on a headache, sometimes slightly blurred vision when looking at text, sometimes trouble with my eyes focusing, and sometimes dizziness.

When this first started I was doing a heavy editing push for my latest book, so spending tons of time working on screens. I had also recently gotten a new contact lens prescription. I went to my optometrist, who recommended vision therapy. The initial consultation for vision therapy gave me major quackery vibes, and it would have been quite expensive to do the sessions, so I opted not to follow through and got a second opinion from an ophthalmologist and optometrist. The ophthalmologist said not to waste time and money on vision therapy, and the optometrist (recommended by the ophthalmologist) adjusted my prescription down in my glasses and contacts, as she said my power was too high. That was a big adjustment, but I do see great with this new prescription; once my eyes adjusted I assumed that would be the end of my issues… Not so, unfortunately. 🙁

Work for my day job has been heavy these last few weeks, and my eye strain feelings are coming back. They're not as pronounced as they once were (no dizziness, THANK GOD), but still are definitely present. It seems to be that specifically when I have been working on my MBP for a while that I start to feel the near-headache feeling. The Lenovo is very comfortable to use. Like I said up top, these symptoms started in the springtime during a heavy screen period. I've only had this MBP since December of 2020, and many days work is light, so my working theory is that heavy screen time + a bad prescription + using the MBP over time has caused my symptoms to manifest. And now I have fixed the bad prescription, but I'm still using screens many hours a day (more so on the MBP in recent weeks), so that is not allowing my eyes to rest up properly.

So what do I do now? It seems that people who have issues with MBP screens point the finger at temporal dithering, which is impossible to disable? I think that I should probably ask my IT department for a Windows laptop and hope that works better for me. I'm also using eye drops and today started using a humidifier by my work area. Does anyone have any other ideas for things that I should try? Sorry for this excessively long post, but I am just so excited to have other people to talk to about this and hopefully find some answers.

    KG89

    My only idea is to stop using it immediately. It’s possible to over stress your eyes past a certain point with a bad device and then end up with more persistent problems.

    There are no programs or settings to make a painful MBP running MacOS comfortable (some who run Windows on them experience less discomfort, but that’s far from guaranteed).

    MacOS hurts starting from High Sierra or Mojave depending on who you ask. Never versions are not better.

        degen

        @KG89

        Edit: You mentioned you aren’t that tech savvy. While I hope my posts are useful please let me know if something isn’t clear. You’re at that early stage in the process of eyestrain/pain where it’s easier to turn things around if you choose your devices carefully.

        Actually, and I don’t know if this is possible in your situation, but if you can try Windows on that MBP it would prove that the issue was with OS, as many have experienced with High Sierra and newer. Really worthwhile test. This has a decent chance of success since you can presumably use modern Windows on your Lenovo and the 2015 MBP was actually considered useable by many until OS updates ruined it.

        • KG89 replied to this.

            degen

            Thanks for your reply, and I'll definitely let you know if there's something tech-wise that isn't making sense! I think that I'll stop using the MBP (which is running Big Sur, I believe) immediately for several weeks and see how that goes, while still continuing to use eyedrops and the humidifier and just generally focusing on resting my eyes. It's all right for me to do all my work on the Lenovo. Unfortunately I'm not allowed to do any sort of Windows installation on the MBP, since it was issued to me by my company. I do think they will probably work with me to send me a different machine, however.

              KG89

              Same, better or worse if you look with one eye?

              • KG89 replied to this.

                  mike

                  I'm not certain about that--perhaps I should try a patch.

                  I've only been using my Lenovo for work this week and have been taking frequent breaks and not using my phone for hardly anything. I'm trying to consciously adjust my lifestyle so that when I have free time during the day, I'm not using that time to look at screens (I'm now working on art projects, listening to audiobooks, and taking more walks). Also when I compose emails for work, I try to do that when mostly not looking at the screen, then go through afterwards for a quick visual scan.

                  When I was using the MBP and things were getting bad, I had a building feeling that was reminiscent of the burn you feel between your eyes/up your nose when you swim in an overchlorinated pool. I've seen some others online say they've felt the same when looking at a MBP screen. I believe I haven't felt that now since 10/29, so I'm hopeful that I am on the right track and whatever happened to my eyes is slowly healing.

                    KG89

                    Hello!

                    I I were you, I would try in this order:

                    1. Try lookIng through polarIzed sun glasses and see If anythIng Improves
                    2. Try lookIng at parallel vIew stereogram and see If It helps to release the straIn after It starts. Or peform sImple exerces for bInocular vIsIon from thIs forum.
                    3. Analyze If your problems started after OnePlus Nord. If so, put It away for a week and see If It helps.
                    4. Anayse If MBP feels extra brIght sometImes or makes you lIght sensItIve after usage

                    This could help you to gather some data about your problem.

                      10 days later

                      Hi everyone, I've written another post in the usable smartphone thread but thought I'd introduce myself here too.

                      Location: London, UK

                      Occupation: Entertainment industry

                      Age: 36

                      First identified: Purchase of a Samsung Galaxy S21 in November 2021

                      I think I only discovered that I had this issue very recently, in the last week or so with the purchase of a Samsung Galaxy S21. I've used many phones in the past, all with basically no issue at all - with a mix of amoled and lcd panels. The last 5 years I have been using a Oneplus 3 with no issues at all, despite its amoled panel.

                      At home I have a Pcspecialist laptop from 2017 with an IPS LCD panel that gives me no issues, and an Acer monitor that's a similar sort of age that also no issues. My work laptop is an old lenovo I can use with no issues. TV is a Sony from 2015, again gives no issues. Tablet is an amazon one from I think 2018, no issues. All of these have the caveat that probably comes with any display that using it for too long will give some discomfort, but nothing even remotely like the issues I had with the Samsung within only a few minutes.

                      The Samsung S21 I boutht the other day however, wow. This was giving me eye strain, piercing headaches, dizziness and nausea. Someone described a sensation in another thread that rang true with me too, that there was almost a feeling of not being able to focus or concentrate on the display properly.

                      So that's where I am now, in search of a new smartphone that hopefully won't give these issues. I know staring at a light source generally is just not good for your eyes so no device can be 100% problem free, but this really felt next level. It's good to feel not alone, although it's sad we are all in this position.

                        9thfloorprod

                        Hi, and welcome to ledstrain. Many users on this forum have discovered that with one eye covered they can use the device. Have you tried that?

                            mike Hi Mike, thanks for the welcome, good to be here and see all the sharing of ideas and solutions amongst those of us affected by this. I will give the one eye a go but it seems sadly a bit impractical for continued use for my case anyway.

                                Mrak0020 Hey! I tried OLED saver and found it hard to tell if it helped really. Also I really did not like the permissions you had to give that app so wasn't happy using it. I have tried using the phone on high brightness and maybe it was a bit better, but I still have the same issue of finding it hard to focus and concentrate on the display. It still just felt very "in your face" for want of a better term.

                                    9thfloorprod I will give the one eye a go but it seems sadly a bit impractical for continued use for my case anyway.

                                    First of all it’s to see if you have the same problem as many others on the forum. Second is so you can help other on the forum in the future with what you find for solution. Third, training with covering one eye has done so now I can use all screens with both eyes.

                                      9thfloorprod I see. As far as pwm is the most obvious and prominent problem with amoleds i would try to double check and triple check the pwm.
                                      You might try ips phones like iphone 11. I found out that my symptoms escalated so fast that in a week I could define a problematic phone at the mall immediately.

                                      If it is not pwm, you could try binocular vision findings from the forum, like patching one eye.

                                      If neither, you could be affected by something similar to my problem.
                                      It is described here https://ledstrain.org/d/1320-lightversion-problem/17
                                      If you do not mind reading google translated texts, there's a link in that thread to my research in russian. It covers and describes all the basic tests for different issues with phones.

                                        9thfloorprod unfortunately, i haven't found the solution yet. Nor do I know how to define problematic screens unless I look at them.

                                          14 days later

                                          Hello, my name is Diego and I'm from Argentina. I registered in 2020 in the forum but i stayed for 2 weeks at most. I returned only recently after my old cellphone stopped working, so i'm struggling again to find an usable smartphone.

                                          My problem started last year when i decided to buy a new smartphone (Xiaomi Redmi Note 9S). At first, I was unsure about what was causing me the eyestrain and headaches, but fortunately i pinpointed the cause sooner rather than later and returned inmediately to my old Samsung A5. The symptoms are only mild if i see the Redmi for about 10-15 minutes, but the longer i keep staring at the screen the more serious they get, and also the recovery time is longer. What i also find weird (or at least it's a feeling i have), i don't seem to recover afternight from sleeping, but rather during the day (of course, always trying not to use the phone).

                                          I tried two other phones: Samsung A51 and the Galaxy S7 Edge. Both are unusable for me, but the A51 gave me the worst kind of headache and eyestrain i felt to this day while using an electronic device.

                                          Same as other users in the forum, i believe our problems started with some new kind of technology in the new generation of smartphones, starting around 2017 approximately. I always see this discussions about OLED displays being worse than IPS but i don't think the real issue is there. My old Samsung A5 uses AMOLED technology and i never had any problem with it, while the Note 9S which is IPS is the reason I'm here. The Samsung A51 is also AMOLED like the A5 but it's even worse than the Redmi. So clearly the problem is some other thing rather than the display being OLED or IPS.

                                          I never had any problems with TVs or computer monitors.

                                            DiegoRojo i don't seem to recover afternight from sleeping

                                            Diego, welcome!

                                            Phone damages conjunctiva and/or cornea. Either directly or by affecting an eye in such a way that the eye later damages those tissues.
                                            Both conjunctiva and cornea require tears to heal. During nights humans do not produce much tears. Nor do we blink to redistribute tears. During daytime we produce tears, we blink and conjunctiva and cornea both heal faster. Dry conjunctiva and cornea would rather inflame during nighttime, instead of healing. Just like with a dry eye syndrome. So an eye could become red in the morning and more light-sensitive. Conjunctiva and cornea are very tender, eyelids can easily scratch them when dry.
                                            I wonder how exactly phone manages to make this damage. I noticed a little blood vessels on my conjunctiva appear in five second when looking at the screen.
                                            The good thing is that both conjunctiva and cornea heal fast.

                                            Diego, I suppose you speak more languages than English; do you know any big forums or places or threads where people discuss this specific topic? There are tech forums in Russian, where people discuss this problem in specific threads. Maybe you know something similar? I would scavenge every source for information and clues if there were, well, sources.

                                            P.S. I am from Ukraine 🙂

                                                I want to updated my initial post:

                                                Usable device:

                                                • Dell Latitude E5550 (no with W10 1909/2004)
                                                • Dell Latitude E5590 (with W10 1809)
                                                • LG B8 (with PS4, chromecast and switch)
                                                • Switch with it's own display
                                                • My desktop PC: AMD RX480 + Alienware AW2518HF (25" FULL HD, TN 240HZ)
                                                • Ipad Air 2
                                                • Iphone X
                                                • Pixel 4A

                                                Not usable device:

                                                • Dell latitude 7420
                                                • DELL vostro 15 5568
                                                • LG 27UD68 4K 27" IPS LED
                                                • AOC I2481FXH
                                                • Ipad Pro 10,5"
                                                • MBA 2018
                                                • MBP 16" 2019

                                                During this time I have found that updating windows can render the device unusable.

                                                Both my Desktop and my work notebook (latitude E5550) were unusable to me with the 1909 and 2004. I am now using the 21H1 with my desktop and the 1809 in the notebook.

                                                Unfortunately my company was bought by a multinational and i will no longer be able to use dell 5550 with W10 1809. They gave me a latitude 7420 with w10 enterprise 21H1 but i can't use it. I can't install dithering.exe, change GPU drivers etc .. It will be tough!

                                                Mrak0020 Hello Mrak, yes I speak spanish but i'm sorry to say I haven't found anything helpful yet. I don't think there is even more information outside this forum and a couple more, some scattered Reddit threads and some Youtube videos. This is leading me to believe that we are a tiny statistic, probably less than 1% of the population.

                                                    DiegoRojo Oh I see 🙁
                                                    Thank you.
                                                    I am not sure about statistics, it could be just some specifics of how people discuss this problem in internet...
                                                    My ophthalmologist said immediately that she has other patients like me, when I described symptoms.

                                                    @DiegoRojo
                                                    I feel like those complaints are just scattered through the internet in English. Something like this comment about a monitor:
                                                    https://libredd.it/r/Monitors/comments/pmmt2l/trying_to_reduce_eye_strain_and_headaches_from/
                                                    It says: "I read about (some other monitor) having PWM flicker and decided to upgrade to a monitor that is supposedly PWM free (LG 27UL850-W). But now that I have the LG I still get bad eye-strain and headaches from looking at the monitor even just for a few minutes. It feels like the colors, especially the white color pierce through my eyes even at lowest brightness if that makes any sense. "
                                                    These symptoms make so much sense to me.

                                                        dev