Hello!
I don't know exactly why but it seems that for me LCD panels with LED backlight are a bit tiring to my eyes. The ones with CCFL backlight are ok.
As for smartphones I found that the ones with TN panels are acceptable. I've used Samsung Galaxy Core; Grand Prime; and A20e . Cheap phones, I know this, but if Apple made an Iphone with TN panel I probably would buy it.
Hi,
I am a migraineur and have had issues with fluorescent lights forever and LEDs since people started backlighting screens and lighting buildings with them.
At the moment I need to get a new computer and monitor and am trying to get some idea of what might work. I use Kurzweil 3000 ( a text to voice program) which is windows dependent (or Apple but mine is windows) and am not sure what to do OSwise.
I was thinking that something like Qubes might be good as I could use the old and now unsupported windows 7 in one qube which did not access the internet to run kurzweil and something else in the qube that I used to face the internet, but the few linux distros I have tried Ubuntu, Trisquel, Devuan, Sabayon and so on have been pretty bad. Trisquel was a bit interesting because dithering was off by default - but there was something off about it and I had a pretty appalling migraine after an hour or so on it.
It seems from a lot of the comments on the threads that new tech is going to be worse than what I have been using which is a bit of a concern. Particularly the issues people have had with android 9 eink devices. - I had really hoped that eink would solve all these issues.
Hi.
I'm from Latvia. I'm a 40 years old programmer.
I'm visually impaired since birth (ocular albinism, nystagmus, astigmatism). For this reason, I have to use displays at lower-than-native resolutions or turn on GPU scaling and to use monitors at a closer-than-normal distance (20 - 30cm instead of 60-80cm). Such working conditions make me especially sensitive to different deficiencies and issues of modern LCD displays - PWM, VCOM inversion flicker, FRC flicker, viewing angles, etc.
My current display - Viewsonic VP2365WB - is showing the first signs of death after serving me well for 10 years. So, now I'm looking for a replacement. However, it turns out to be a very tedious task, filled with doubts and fears of countless trials and returns before I find a model and unit that feels good to my eyes.
Hi guys. I'm 26 year old self-employed from Poland.
It's been three months I struggle almost every day with the problem. I have an old laptop (Samsung NP350E7C-S08PL) which needs to be replaced, so I decided to buy LG Gram 17 which was my dream laptop. Very soon after having purchased the new laptop my dream turned into a nightmare. It broke me down not only phisically but also mentally.
The symptoms I have : burning sensation, head strain, eye strain and fatigue, brain fog, feeling tired, headache.
So far I haven't found a modern laptop or smartphone which fully works for me however I'm quite okay with such monitors as Asus VZ229HE and Acer Predator xb241hbmipr.
Hi all,
I am new here, found this forum while looking for possible eye symptoms.
I am a research professor working in the USA. I am 39 and have been using computers (at least) several hours a day for the last 20 years without any issue that I can recall. I have been wearing glasses (for slight myopia) for 30 years.
Back in October, I switched from a Dell Precision 5520 (1080p panel) to a MacBook Pro 16. I didn't realize at the time the connection, but I started feeling lightheaded with mild headaches after a week or so of use (and at the time I was only working a few broken hours a day on the laptop). I also had this weird sensation that my eyes were not focusing properly. These symptoms continued on for a couple weeks with the addition of heart palpitations (not sure if that part is related in any way). Went to the ER, did a million tests, followed up with my GP. Nothing was found at all.
However, the eye symptoms were really not that severe until a couple weeks ago. I started working 8-10 hours a day on my laptop, and I was getting some pretty bad eye strain in the afternoon. However, a good night's sleep would help dramatically, and I would feel fine in the morning. I chucked the specific eye symptoms off as I thought they were related to possible other health issues.
It's now been a week that the eye strain doesn't get better after sleeping. What's odd is that I mostly feel it in my right eye, which has become painful at times. One possible (perhaps far-fetched?) link to this one-sided problem is that I had a neck dissection 3 years ago. There was clearly some nerve damage and I remember having issues after surgery when I would drive and the sun would shine through the trees. This sort of low frequency light change was bothering my eyes a lot. It subsided after a few weeks, though.
Now, even after using my laptop all day, I have trouble watching a movie using my projector (which should not induce strain, I believe). Since yesterday, I have tried a few things to possibly help (maximum brightness, then using a 3rd party software to reduce the brightness without triggering the PWM), changing the .icc profile, adding some yellow tint, ... . Nothing seems to make a difference. I don't know if the temporal dithering might be the culprit.
I am trying to use my old laptop as much as possible right now (starting today), and despite not feeling the same strain on my eye muscles, my right eye still hurts. I can't believe I didn't see the connection before yesterday!
Anyway, I don't know if anybody has had the same problem with what appear to be lingering symptoms (and possibly this one-sided issue), but I would love to hear about such experiences and if reverting to a previously used screen solved the problem.
Obviously, I am not quite sure what to do about my MacBook. I really like this computer but I will most likely try to avoid using it completely over the winter break and hope that this will solve my symptoms.
Other device used without apparent issues:
fgrise Welcome to the forum, I'm glad you found it. Your story is very reminiscent of many people's experiences here, so hopefully this can be the start of working out how to solve your issues.
Your story is actually remarkably similar to my own, except mine started back in 2012 with a Macbook purchase. I'd recommend having a read of this post:
https://ledstrain.org/d/152-temporal-dithering-sensitivity-my-solution
It certainly sounds like temporal dithering / flickering of some kind will be what's causing your symptoms, as they correlate so closely with other people's that I think you can be sure of that at least. Finding a solution these days is getting increasingly tricky but I have a working setup I can use all day long (and I also use an iPhone 8 with good success).
Good luck and keep us in the loop @fgrise!
si_edgey Thanks! I had read part of the thread and it is quite illuminating. Now, one thing I am not sure about is that my PC laptop currently runs Windows 10 Pro (v. 1903) so I suspect this means that dithering is on by default (?). It's using an Intel Pro 630 and Nvidia Quatro M1200. Would that mean that dithering is not the issue for me, or alternatively that the dithering used on MacBook is different?
fgrise my PC laptop currently runs Windows 10 Pro (v. 1903) so I suspect this means that dithering is on by default
Dithering is something that is done by the graphics card in your laptop rather than Windows. That being said, different versions of Windows often seem to do other subpixel rendering (such as font smoothing) that can give people issues too. But more often than not it comes down to the graphics drivers, an Intel drivers are notoriously bad for it (not that they'll admit there's an issue).
fgrise It's using an Intel Pro 630 and Nvidia Quatro M1200
I'm assuming you meant Intel HD 630? My working setup also uses this graphics chip, so that would make sense if we suffer from the same issue.
fgrise Would that mean that dithering is not the issue for me, or alternatively that the dithering used on MacBook is different?
I'd assume that temporal dithering (or similar) is your issue for just now given what you've written, although as we've learned over the years everyone's brain is different (and this is certainly a neurological condition) so it's very hard to be 100% on anything at all.
But if you have a working setup, make sure to install Windows update blocker and simply stick with it for as long as you can, upgrading is a bit of a minefield, and sadly I haven't yet found a Macbook that I am able to use, and I've tried many since 2012.
si_edgey Dithering is something that is done by the graphics card in your laptop rather than Windows. That being said, different versions of Windows often seem to do other subpixel rendering (such as font smoothing) that can give people issues too. But more often than not it comes down to the graphics drivers, an Intel drivers are notoriously bad for it (not that they'll admit there's an issue).
This is what I meant, but thanks for clarifying!
si_edgey I'm assuming you meant Intel HD 630? My working setup also uses this graphics chip, so that would make sense if we suffer from the same issue.
This is indeed the HD 630.
si_edgey But if you have a working setup, make sure to install Windows update blocker and simply stick with it for as long as you can, upgrading is a bit of a minefield, and sadly I haven't yet found a Macbook that I am able to use, and I've tried many since 2012.
Well, I don't think I can install the update blocker as this is a work computer, and IT is quite strict on this ... .
Unfortunately, I might need a new laptop as this one is not good enough for my current needs. The MacBook was such a nice change, this is really unfortunate. Now on to tell my boss that the 3.5k$ MacBook is not working out (but first, I need to make sure that my symptoms are going away without using it!).
Thanks!
My opinion dithers to many on this forum, in that I believe there is no issue with intel's integrated GPUs or their drivers. I have used a capture card to record the output from many graphics card, some some software I wrote to analyse them ( see here ). Intel's offerings were the only ones which did not consistently use dithering.
I believe your issue may more likely be due to LCD inversion. Every frame, the voltage applied to each pixel is inverted to prevent degradation. You may read about this here. The ultimate result of this is a subtle flickering at half the framerate of your monitor. Laptops tend to be worse than desktop monitors as the low power implementations of LCD inversion are more noticeable.
Regarding your symptoms, are you familiar with migraines? You may find some similarity between them and your experiences. If nothing else, note that an illness which is primarily located in the brain can have many symptoms outside it.
My personal opinion on this issue is that the flickering is altering our natural brain wave frequency. Staring at a flickering light induces corresponding and detectable pulses in brain activity. In a typical person, serotonin neurons will act to inhibit these pulses and keep parts of the brain not involved with visual processing from synchronising. It has been hypothesized, the increased metabolic requirements of the brain resulting from poorly controlled brain wave frequency is a trigger for migraines. Where the purpose of the migraine is to greatly reduce brain activity and allow repair. I have sources for the above, but forgive me, its late where I am and I haven't the time to find and link them in.
What does this mean for you? well you may have injured your brain in some way. The brain is slow to heal, but it can do so. Exercise is often cited as a trigger for neurogenesis, important for healing neurological issues.
Seagull Thanks for sharing this! This is most interesting.
Regarding migraines, no I don't think I ever had one and I rarely have headaches.
The question would be: how did I injure my brain? How did switching to a MacBook trigger this when I have been using computers and screens my whole life? The MacBook Pro 16 uses an integrated Intel GPU so if Intel drivers are fine, what's causing this? Or, how is the LCD inversion different on the MacBook? The frequency of it?
I understand that people mentioned that connecting an external monitor to the MacBook won't help because the same processing will be applied. Is the LCD inversion frequency specific to a monitor or is the graphics driver forcing it? If the former, using an external monitor should solve the problem, right?
I just registered to thank Artis...I disabled HW overlay in my android phone and immediately felt relief in my eyes, wonderful!
Also I have a benq monitor (gl2250hm) that I can use quite fine with my laptop and intel hd graphics, but when I use it with my pc (radeon hd 7870) it kills my eyes...I discovered I'm not alone and this makes me happy!
Guys I found a solution, at least for me, the culprit was HDMI !
If I use HDMI i get eye strain both with amd gpu and intel hd 4600.
So I tried connecting the hd 4600 with a VGA cable and guess what? No eye strain...very strange...
Now I'm using windows 10 latest version so I can game using the discrete gpu through the vga cable connected to hd 4600. Crazy uh?
Hello, I work in quality and knowledge management and live in Austria.
I don't wear glasses, but I have chronically dry eyes.However, I can live well with that (with eye drops). I noticed that certain smartphones and monitors were incredibly tiring for me from the first minute. My eyes burned. I couldn't focus well anymore. I became more sensitive to light, etc. After I returned the problematic device, it always took days to get back to normal. I always thought it was due to the PWM.
In the meantime I am not so sure anymore.
At home on my computer (latest version: windows 10 2004) and my monitor (Gericom GM2600) I never had any problems. Then I did a clean install (Windows 10 20H2) in December and since then I have eye strain.I have already tried on all possible settings. I also went back to old Windows 10 versions, but nothing brought improvement. I have absolutely no idea why the eye strain is suddenly there with the same hardware constellation.
blubb At home on my computer (latest version: windows 10 2004) and my monitor (Gericom GM2600) I never had any problems. Then I did a clean install (Windows 10 20H2) in December and since then I have eye strain.I have already tried on all possible settings. I also went back to old Windows 10 versions, but nothing brought improvement. I have absolutely no idea why the eye strain is suddenly there with the same hardware constellation.
I've had exactly this experience some months back and I'm still hunting for solutions...
Lauda89 Sorry I missed your post. I tried Gram with external monitor and it's better but not perfect. What's interesting, I returned Gram after 45 days (we have some good return policies in Poland), tried lots of devices and bought Gram again a month ago and it gave me totally different sensation than for the first time 7 months ago. This time I "only" get some burning senation in my body, headaches afterwards and blurred vision. Anyway, it was way better than 7 months ago, but still uncomfortable so I returned it again.
