degen What I wonder is what changes made it bad for me? I had ps4 slim and 43 fhd TV sony and all was fine. Then I sold that 43 tv which I regred to this day... and bought Panasonic xe700 4k 50" and played on Switch which I have bought back then. All was fine. Played >200 hours on Zelda and then some other switch games. THen I went back to ps4 on my new Panasonic - bloody eyes, horrible headache after only like 20-30mins various games not only fast camera rotateed but games like drive club, bug butcher where camera is more calm, various of settings, eye doctor - visit (all fine) NOTHING helped. Then I went for SONY XE9005 because I thought its cause of low freq. PWM on Panasonic. I have set up SONY to be flicker free acording to settings from rtings (brightness above 8/50 and turned off auto local dimming) and tried PS4. No more bloody eyes but still on games like killzone shadow fall , uncharted, diablo 3 which I have played back then I was getting headache after 1-3 hours of play an unplesant headache. Tried for some times but it didn't disapear so I sold my PS4. I was using my pc connected with hdmi to this sony 2 years and all is fine.
So im a little afraid of PS4 but I would like to play on it for the hassle free experience with hardware/software game crash etc. and exclusives.
But can't say what is the problem I can play on PC on that TV and couldnt on PS4 then? motion blur/lower fps could add to this?
Maybe its those software updates you are talking about? But why on Switch I could play and I could watch movies/TV no problem even on this "BAD" for me Panasonic and I couldnt for PS4 ? How to find a cause.
Hows PS4 pro for you with HDR screens??

      13 days later

      degen One thing that doesn't get mentioned a lot is that a lot of PS4/XBOX/STEAM games add effects into the games that reduce motion blur. Well it helps with motion blur it creates other problems especially for people like us. Playing PS4 on a Plasma can be death to your eyes depending on the game. So sometimes it's better to play on an LED because it's not pulsed like a Plasma screen. Axiom Verge was a game that did this and I would imagine most FPS games use techniques like this. Good game developers are well aware of LED's limits with motion blur so they have to compensate with tricks. I play most PS4 games on my LED screen. Good hints is when you notice strobing or motion options in your game. Sometimes nothing is mentioned though and some games are just terribly programmed or some people just can't tolerate them. That's why if you play an old retro game it will be blurry unless you use overdrive or strobing compared to a new game where you usually can't see much motion blur even at 60hz. PC gaming at high refresh rates would be the ultimate.

        Luki99 Most Switch games are 30FPS I'm pretty sure unless it's first party Nintendo games which run at 60FPS. I think you need more screens to test theories out so you can continue gaming. Distance matters as well grab a measuring tape and try gaming from 6ft and then try gaming from 7ft away. You would be surprised especially if the screen is giving you trouble futher distance will give you less trouble that is if your eye sight is good. I see you visit rtings.com check what HDMI number your TV is vs what HDMI your PS4 is. Buy a different cable. You can totally get different results with different cables so spend a bit more money on one you could even future proof your HDMI and get one that is 4K 60. I was showing my son two different HDMI hook ups and the cheaper one looked a little fuzzier. Do you have a gaming monitor to test consoles with? They are always better then a TV unless you have an OLED TV. Even with an OLED gaming monitors still have better input lag. Does your TV have a game mode if so I would flip it on. I feel like PS4 PRO could be a problem for some people because of HDR. I just have a regular PS4 but have no issues with it. Most games I play on my LED gaming monitor. Some games this year I beat I did play on my Plasma screen though. What about overdrive settings? I would check those as well. Look your TV up on Rtings and check the motion blur ranking that could help as well. My gaming monitor is as 9.7 out of 10. I know motion blur is my weakness though. I beat 20 games this year and put in probably 500 hours or more. I'm old though and play everything from Sega Master System to PS4. I spend a lot of time on Retro RGB and My Life In Gaming to make sure I can get the best quality hook up for each system or the best version of the game. I just beat Y's VIII for PS4 but I found out that the PS4 version was better to play then the Switch. The same thing for the game Bloodstained the Switch version was brutal compared to the 60FPS PS4 version. Red Dead 2 is apparently not optimized properly for PC and it doesn't run well. A lot of times the developer only makes a game good for one system and the rest suffer making it harder for us easily eye strained people to play. I was really into getting a good hook up for PS2 as I think it's one of the worst systems for being hard on the eyes. It uses a stupid 480i mode and the way it draws to the screen I find just brutal. I bought a special 70 dollar CDN Component cable recommended from Retro RGB hooked it up to my Plasma and have no issues with it now. The next best way for that system was hooked up to my CRT with just the RCA(Yellow, Red, White hookups) but after awhile it would strain me but if I sat 9 - 10 ft away almost no issues. Just some ideas.

            Im using those settings:
            https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x900e/settings

            Their settings is basicly game mode and all image processing turned OFF.

            In 2017 it was one of the best 4k HDR TVs. If you set it with rtings settings considering the PWM section in the review it doesnt flicker at all I have tested it with PWM Ufo test.

            The strange thing is back with that bad Panasonic I could use it with switch for like 200 hours (Zelda) and then after finished it plugged PS4 and my eyes were bloody red after 20-30mins and headaches.
            Then on Sony X900E no bloody eyes on ps4 but headaches... but not when PC is connected to this TV - its fine all that time (except sniper ghost warrior 1 that gave me headache lately but it has bad fov and tearing problems).

            You say ps4 pro can make problems cause of HDR well vanilla PS4 has HDR support too.. I have recently borrowed PS4 Slim and have played uncharted demo, re2 demo, ratchet clank, diablo 3 and MGS V. Best was on MGS V this game is locked 60 and no blurrines when rotating camera but played it just for like an hour. Other games well.. I had headaches still so I probably cant play PS4 the normal way 🙁
            And yes I have tried it couple years ago with my monitor - EIzo FS2434 and it was fine but playing it that way was not comfy for me. Maybe I will try it again someday but for me consoles is on big screen if I have to play on 24 its pointless I would rather stick to PC then.

            And on my old TV KDL-43WD750 I was fine playing all days on PS4... those new things just sux. Im considering also buying 43 monitor but there are only two now LG 43ud79 which uses PWM (same as my panasonic TV) and philips 43 momentum with glare screen which sux hoping new monitors will come.

            I have read the forum a little and guys were talking about graphics driver strain maybe thats what is with PS4? My older TV sony the 43wd750 was fhd without HDR I remember after Panasonic 4khdr failed so badly I thought I will go back and buy fhd so i bought 50 inch SOny FHD but this one had HDR so the image processing might be different and it caused me headaches too.
            I think it can be related somehow of what you said about how the games on consoles are made - a lot of tricks/lot of blur to make it look smooth with 30fps only and secondly new screens even I have everything turned off some processing must be there or something else. On pc same TV no problems but you can turn off motion blur, screen shake , deph of field, ambient occlusion and I always take 60fps first then higher res/effects.

              Luki99 As for the why we can't use certain screens anymore I think as we get older or are unlucky we lose the ability to compensate for all the issues these screens throw at us. I used to be able to use CCFL only for a little tiny bit maybe a year and no issues with CRT. All of the sudden one day I couldn't use anything. It wasn't until 2019 an entire 11 years later I can finally use a LED screen that doesn't strain my eyes.

                  Luki99 So I looked at RTINGS for your Sony TV you had. I did notice some interesting things.

                  1. Read the part about how it handles 1080P content different then most TV's.
                  2. Look at the Response time rating 9.1. It's possible this might not be fast enough for you. View Sonic XG2402 Is the fastest for 60hz content and gets a score of 10. I use an LG24GL600F which sits at a 9.7.
                  3. I can't tell but I think your Panasonic uses a VA panel and the Sony uses a VA panel. If I was you I would try VA/IPS/TN/OLED. TN will show the best response times for gaming. OLED will beat TN in the faster pixel response time though.
                    Just some thoughts. Good luck!
                    Looking at these scores I bet the Panasonic is a worse TV but I can't tell because I didn't see it on Rtings.

                      jasonpicard Thanks for the input!

                      ad. 1 . Thats intrestind I have missed that one! Don't know what they mean by " more jagged than usual" cause the look of this screen is 100% better then anything I had before. But maybe that can be problematic hm

                      ad. 2. This is for sure not the problem. My earlier TV 43 too SONY had like more then 50ms so 10ms is awesome for TV.

                      ad. 3. I couldn't find it on rtings too because its european name version of this TV but Panasonic was much worse with ratings much lower then this sony. It had VA panel but with using of constant PWM at 240hz which gave me bloody eyes after just like 20mins.

                      Yes I was thinking of buying another TV but going back with memories of returnig those huge boxes in a car is not promissing...
                      The thing is I like movies too and I can watch them no problem on this TV and they look stunning wouldn;t like to lost it.. I went with sony because before that 43 was SOny too and sony has no pwm like all others tv manufactures thats why im afraid of trying other models.

                      Still strange thing is I have my PC connected to this TV for quite a long time and I can play on it without problems! But just plug in PS4 and headaches are coming quite fast.

                        jasonpicard Yes you probably have a point althrought my son while I have played horizon zero dawn back then on that BAD ASS Panasonic had red eyes too - no headaches and pain cause he is 12y but I saw his eyes were red so those new tech TV sux in some ways...
                        Glad you have found a display for you!

                          6 months later

                          I will add a little update on my problem... Still using this SOny TV XE9005 and so far connected to PC I had no problems with exception of some FPS games like Sniper Ghost warrior but for example CS GO was fine on this TV.
                          But recently I wanted to get back to some sim racing games. Back then I was playing Assetto corsa with a wheel using my good EIZO FS2434 and all was fine. I wanted to try this on this TV and rebuy a wheel but after 30-50min of asseto corsa or project cars I had strong pain between eyes which later lead to headache which sometimes lasted till next day..
                          So it seems like games where you watch far away with eyes makes problems for me...
                          I tried some settings with this TV again like with contrast and changed balance between while/black had no success on simracing games BUT I have noticed after those changes headaches occured even in materials (like you tube stream watching) which didnt trigger headaches for me.
                          SO it can be something with the colors.. I have noticed on forum some people mentioned about contrast ratio of 1000:1 or below... I have checked and my monitor has that contrast ratio but my TV is 4000:1 so that can be one of the reasons...
                          I wanted to try an OLED but acording to rtings update they are not flicker free.

                          I have decided to try out 43 MONITOR which would be similar to my 24 FS2434 in some specs:
                          W-LED
                          FLICKER-FREE
                          IPS
                          250cd/m2 - thats my monitor max so not too bright (my TV is 500-900at max!),
                          NO HDR
                          Anti-Glare/matte 3H
                          fastest response time/input lag
                          AND after reading some post here - 1000:1 contrast ratio

                          Unfortunately there are not many monitor at 43 size but I will try. IF anyone has anything to add/similar problems write 🙂

                            Luki99 I am using an OLED LG B8 since 2 years and i've never had any problem except with one game: Death stranding. I think it's something related to the text because it's toooo small!
                            I've used this TV with youtube, netflix, amazon prime, chrome cast, PS4 and Nintendo switch.
                            Rtings review said it's flicker free but anyway i don't have any problem even with the iphone X.

                            The contrast ratio of the OLED display is "infinite"!

                                Lauda89 Ok thats nice to hear its working for you BUT in comparision did you had problems on LCDs before OLED?

                                Rtings updated their review and said it's not flicker free you can check it out OLED changes its brightness every 8ms at least for models LG c9 / B9 which if any OLED then I would be intrested in..

                                    Luki99 I've never had any problem with TVs. Instead notebooks and PC desktop are big problems.
                                    Right now i am using an Alienware AW2518HF (240hz TN) and it was fine until i've tried to update W10 from 1809 to 2004. After a weekend of trying i was super sick and i wasn't able to use every display for almost 2 weeks. Now i've tryed to install an old version 1803 but it's still not ok, i don't know what's happening!

                                        Lauda89 it was fine until i've tried to update W10 from 1809 to 2004.

                                        I too had trouble with 2004 and have reverted - and in my case safely.
                                        I just had a thought - the latest nvidia driver is related to v2004. Try an older driver.

                                          a month later

                                          I just received a PS4 Slim. I noticed the controllers' LED lights flicker at a high frequency, probably in the 20 kHz range. It is strong 100% flicker (on/off PWM). Setting the controller brightness adjusts the PWM but does not change the flicker intensity. It might be a good idea to cover the LEDs completely.

                                            KM flicker at a high frequency, probably in the 20 kHz range

                                            Time to try to pull out the oscilloscope?

                                              KM But if you cover it completely you will not be able to use it or the signal will be bad.. ?

                                              I still wonder if it can have any impact on your eyes/headaches cause I don't look down there at gamepad light while using it. On PC you can turn that light completely.

                                              • KM replied to this.

                                                  Luki99 I think the light is only necessary for the separately available camera or to visually distinguish controllers when there's more than 1 player. The regular Bluetooth signal goes through my black isolation tape without problems. If you know you have a history of peripheral flickering lights causing symptoms, I highly recommend to give it a try.

                                                  However, I can feel that the PS4 video output is worse when compared to the PS3. The symptoms for me are similar to using Firefox (left eye hurts, headache over time). I'm not sure what they (Sony) do and why they do it. Happens in the system menu and in the one game I have tried so far (Assassin's Creed Origins). They give big epilepsy warnings every time you turn on the console but do nothing to make their video output clean in the first place.

                                                  I will try different games, too, and share oscilloscope pictures of the controller flicker as soon as I feel like looking at it again. 100% PWM is never a joy for me.

                                                      KM Ok maybe it goes thru a tape for me im sure DS4 even if it PWMs it's not the problem and as I said im using it for PC so I can just turn off lightbar with just 1 click...
                                                      I still think it's the display's or the combination of PS4+display because on older TV I had no problems playing PS4 any game and also on my monitor FS2434 which I have from like 7 years I can plug there anything and it won't give me any sympthoms besides neck pain but I was an IT guy and PC gamer for like 25 years... that's why I would like more relaxing couch experience and im in a work to find a big display solution for me.

                                                        dev