For the past 7 years I have been on an unsuccessful quest to find a gaming monitor that I can tolerate. I am hoping someone in this forum who has experienced something similar to the below might have successfully cracked this puzzle- I am definitely open to any thoughts or suggestions! After years of research, and much trial and error (I have tried over 30 monitors!), I have concluded that something about the LED light of modern monitors itself causes my symptoms (similar to those described by many others here): retinal pain and eye strain, disorientation, etc. I have confirmed this by finding **LED desk lights that produce the same symptoms**! I have identified 6 basic low-end computer monitors I can use no problem all from the year 2013 or earlier. I have yet to find any monitor manufactured after 2013 that I can tolerate. The older monitors that I can tolerate I can use for 8+ hours a day without any strain whatsoever; whereas the intolerable monitors cause symptoms within minutes- there is a distinct difference. I strongly suspect the culprit is something in the color spectrum produced by the LEDs- probably due to the more red-leaning color spectrum used to produce a “full color spectrum” measurement for monitor tests. (All “low blue light” solutions seem to be irrelevant for me.) The offensive monitors generally seem to have a slight orangey-reddish hue to the light. I’ve seen some other posts on this forum that seem to corroborate this conclusion. *[**Edit 5/6/24**: I no longer believe the culprit is spectrum, but indeed feel very confident like very many here that the issue is **flicker**. I believe I've confirmed this by exposing myself to an incandescent bulb projector that I know uses pixel shifting, which is a form of flicker, and it definitely triggered the same symptoms!]* Yesterday I tried a true RGB OLED monitor with Quantum Dot (the amazing Dell Alienware AW3423DW)- very sadly it was also not tolerable. I’ve also had problems with LG WRGB OLED TVs. But, I have never had an issue with any OLED phones, nor any laptop that I have seen (though I haven’t tested too many laptops). I can use: * Basic monitors from year 2013 or earlier (for example Asus VS247H-P, Dell P2014HT, Acer G276HLGbid) * Modern basic Samsung LED backlit TV Model UN55TU8000FXZA (manufactured 2022) * Modern Chromebook * All modern phones that I’ve seen so far, both Android and Apple, both with LED or OLED screens I can’t tolerate: * All gaming monitors that I’ve tried so far (for example Asus PG279Q, PG278QR, VG248QE, VZ27AQ; Acer XB271HU; Nixeus NX-EDG27; LG 24MP59HT-P; QNIX QX2710; Samsung C27HG70, LS27AG500PNXZA; Dell Alienware AW3423DW OLED) * All modern non-gaming monitors that I’ve seen * LG C7 OLED TV I keep hope because there exist both LED backlight and OLED screens that fall into both categories, and because gaming-worthy monitors exist- but I just can’t seem to combine the two! Has anyone had a similar experience and had any luck with this? I’m gratefully open to all thoughts and ideas. Thank you so much!

As I posted in another thread recently I am now convinced the biggest contributor to these issues is terrible pixel inversion issues that most modern monitors have. This causes slight flickering that results in the observed symptoms. Pixel inversion state is specific to every single produced unit therefore you cannot find a "good type". As for the LED lights as far as I know some LED lights may be flickering too… but I don't really know for sure. It may be that your problems lie elsewhere, but in the past several years I did see two laptop screens that were perfect for my eyes, I could see how stable their image was. This again leads me to believe this is no recent LED backlight changes or anything else of the sort that some others here suggested. With those gaming monitors… did you try to run them at a higher refresh rate? What was the rate and did you feel any relief or difference when the refresh rate was higher?

@"machala"#p27473 Hello sir! I very much appreciate your thoughts. I've been thinking about your other post, so thank you. Yes, I ran the gaming monitors at up to 175 Hz successfully but no relief was experienced. The fact that I have found LED desk lamps that produce the same symptoms makes me think it is related to wavelength spectrum produced- but your post makes me wonder if those desk lamp LEDs also flicker in some way. Also I noticed that when the LCD LED backlight monitors were ON but the computer was OFF (black screen but backlight still on), I still experienced the symptoms (I actually sat and stared at a blank screen for 5 minutes to test this- very interesting). Still, I'll give further thought to pixel inversion or some kind of other LED flicker as a possible cause.

LED lights ( monitors, bulbs, cars , etc … ) are harmful to us and it's now proven in European Union by this article!!! https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/16/health/blue-light-led-health-effects-bn-trnd/index.html This is one major factor that makes us feel really bad. I would like to know too if there are some monitors LED free !

@"Allekss"#p27476 Ironically, it is the monitors sold as "low blue light" and "Eye Care" that cause me the worst symptoms. The offensive monitors tend to have a reddish/ orange-ish hue to them, so I actually wonder if the issue isn't more in the red/ orange (longer wavelength) end of the spectrum, rather than blue; or perhaps even some wavelength outside the visible spectrum.

@"Gemsand"#p27481 all this " eye care " monitors are just marketing for companies to sell more and for dumbies to buy more… You can have a pair of blue light glasses and you're done… The MAJOR problem nowadays is the LED backlighting of monitors + how DIRECT DX12 render things…

You need to look at 28 (not 27!) inch gaming monitors. They use Innolux panel, and I've heard the least amount of complaints regarding these panels. Examples: Gigabyte M28U

@"EyeDiscomfortCertificate"#p27501 This is a great idea, I'll look into it- thank you! I've never considered an atypical size (28") 4K monitor- maybe the panel/ LEDs are different.

Just an update. This past weekend I made a special trip to another city just to visit a Micro Center store where they had \~50 or so monitors on display! While it was difficult for me to draw definitive conclusions in a few hours of time in that environment on so many samples (especially once my eyes were sensitized), I felt confident that the vast majority of the monitors- perhaps even all- do cause me the negative eyestrain symptoms. At the time I felt there might potentially have been two monitors in the store that "felt different" and could potentially be acceptable for me- I bought one (34" Lenovo G34W-10) and took it home, only to discover after 30 minutes of use that it, too, caused great discomfort. The only remaining monitor from the trip I'm still considering is a 43" monitor (Aorus FV43U), but now that I'm considering up to that size I am starting to look at TVs. Meanwhile I wanted also to mention in response to @"EyeDiscomfortCertificate"#898 that I did get a chance to spend some time in front of a couple 28" Innolux panels, and unfortunately they did cause me the same discomfort. Thank you for the idea! I will post more if and when I discover anything that works for me!

I'm not a gamer, but I'm using "[Acer XF250Q](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07G3GRFSZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)" gaming monitor. For me it works and feels like the monitors around \~2010 just this one is new, so I do not have to stock on old used monitors anymore :D I'm using it with HDMI on 144MHz (on 75HZ is fine too). I tried it with DPI on 240Hz, however the contrast becomes visibly stronger and the monitor becomes unusable for me. I also have my old DELL ST2410 (CCFL backlight), it's 60HZ only. I'd say both feel the same on my eyes (tho my Dell is super old and can notice the colors are bit washed out when putting them side by side) I also have [BenQ GL2780](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IZBIMLK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1) (thats also new TN monitor), this monitor feels cheap compared to rest two, it's easy on the eyes, but not as good as them. PS. Note that I can tolerate TN models only (due the low contrast and anti-reflective coating). Refresh rate is irrelevant in my case.

@"daniel_mate"#p28079 Thank you! I'd be interested to know more about your symptoms, if you're willing to share. That is, what has triggered you? In my own case I don't think the panel type TN vs VA vs IPS itself is a primary cause for me, as I've used all three panel types successfully (but all three in models from 2013 or earlier). Also the fact that a LED desk lamp produced the same strain (and by "strain" I mean the "stabbed in the retinas" feeling) for me implies either light wavelength or, as noted above, potentially some kind of LED flicker itself. This following sentence is one I very much relate to: "For me it works and feels like the monitors around \~2010 just this one is new, so I do not have to stock on old used monitors anymore" - I do have a stash of old monitors in my basement, and I definitely get that "feels like a 2010" monitor comment. I'd be interested to know: Does the Acer XF250Q feel different backlight-wise to you, or just in terms of TN contrast and color? (When I say 'different' I mean compared to modern monitors, does the backlight itself feel like older monitors too somehow? I realize this is subjective.) Thank you much, I appreciate the suggestion!

Seeking Tolerable Gaming Monitor! Any thoughts welcome

wlmsn

Aquila I'd be curious your experience with that as well

Aquila

Just ordered, it will arrive on Sunday.

Stay tuned guys

Aquila

Guys this monitor is Amazing.

First time with a Va monitor but after playing for 2 hours no eye strain or other side effects.

I'm so happy 😊

Gemsand

Aquila

If that continues to hold- a huge congratulations! Please do keep us appraised- I'll be very interested to hear if that is still your assessment in a few days!

Meanwhile, would you mind sharing just a bit about your (previous) symptoms? In my case I do not feel my eye strain is caused by actually functionally using my eyes (to read for instance) but rather something about the backlight of modern monitors itself just hurts so bad. I don't know if it's color spectrum, some imperceptible flickering, or whatever. Anyway if you also have had sensitivity to the backlight and feel this monitor works for you in a few days I will definitely try it! 🙂 Thank you so much!

boomhedshot

Aquila Hey, any updates so far? I find whites/bright shades discomforting on many monitors. Would be helpful if you shared your current settings; color profile(Gamevisual setting) and what brightness you use or if you tweaked anything else.

Would also be nice to know the panel model if it doesn't bother you to mess with service menu. Or maybe see some ghosting pictures https://www.testufo.com/ghosting. If not it's fine if you just compare to the image below that shows some VA smearing and just share your own experience when gaming, if you noticed any dark smearing or blurriness.

Since you reported no discomfort would be cool to also have this monitor if it's a more modern VA panel. Thanks for sharing.

Speshal69

Aquila even with ELMB activated ?

Gemsand

On Aquila's comments I ordered the Asus Tuf VG27AQA1A! For me, it DOES still cause my eye strain- but in a different way than the other monitors I've used, and to a lesser extent. I am going to continue to play with it to see if there is any way it might be tolerable for me- so even while I suspect it will probably not be a long term option for me, that is still saying more than any other monitor I've tried so far. I'm not sure what's different about it (maybe the true 8-bit color on a VA panel has something to do with it?), and while it's definitely not 100% great for me like 10+ year old monitors, I'm still encouraged at the difference. I still feel it is the backlight itself that causes me my issues- whether it be the phosphor coatings/ wavelength, flickering, or whatever, I'm not sure- but the fact that this monitor feels different makes me re-consider color-related dithering as a possibility.

boomhedshot

Gemsand Thanks for sharing, that's unlucky, do you know how to check panel model through service menu? That could maybe give some insight if there are any specific coatings and filters for the backlight that alter wavelenghts since it has Low Blue Light certificate. Try setting Gamemode preset to "Racing" using "Warm" color temperature and set Blue Light to level 1 or 2, that should set temperature to 6600k or 6300k based on a review I saw, maybe that could help.

I've been to a store locally with different monitors on display, gaming and non gaming, don't know if it was just the brightness and settings they used but they all looked aggressive to eye except for one, a cheap 24" 75hz Samsung IPS "LF24T350FHRXEN", haven´t personally tried it yet since I'm looking for something better suitable for gaming but that one definitely stood out from the many monitors on display. I also personally tried the BenQ EX240 and it was also tolerable when I set the monitor to a preset that has wider color gamut so in theory it balanced better the wavelenghts of blue/red/green light, it's 6bit+FRC according to displayspecs but true 8bit according to a reddit reply from Benq support that I saw (https://www.reddit.com/r/BenQ/comments/10g3ngn/benq_mobiuz_ex240_panel_model_and_bit_depth/) so I'm not sure. Either way I decided to look for something with no IPS glow and better contrast but it's hard to find anything really.

Gemsand

boomhedshot

Thanks for the comments sir, and for the recommendation on the 75 Hz Samsung LF24T350FHRXEN. I've tried ALL settings and color profiles, in 30+ monitors now, and have tried narrowing down LED types or coatings by panel #, all largely to no avail. For me it seems to be something about the LED backlight itself causing my issue.

Update: Unfortunately the Asus Tuf VG27AQA1A is not going to work for me. It does still cause the eye pain and strain symptoms- though not as quickly as some other monitors. The hunt continues.

boomhedshot

Gemsand Sorry, I can imagine your frustration, I guess I won't be considering the VG27AQA1A then, wanna avoid any possible issues too.

Saw this post https://www.reddit.com/r/monitor/comments/we8t0s/to_everyone_with_eye_strain_solutionwtf/ so I went and dug out some old polarized lenses I had, turns out my old LCD is polarized at 45º (diagonal) and when I went to the store again, all LCDs were vertically polarized, LF24T350FHRXEN included, only some TVs were horizontal just like what the polarized sunglasses are used for (horizontal sunlight glare), not sure to what extent polarizers have impact but it's useful to know now, either way just looking at the Samsung still felt like the image was more pleasant and natural to me but would have to test this in more prolonged period and not just staring it at the store.

You could be right about backlight, from what I've been gathering, they have been using different phosphors and diode combinations over time to achieve better colors on LCD (nano IPS, Quantum Dot, other phosphors and alternatives), which affects at which intensity blue, green, red are emited in the spectrum (https://pcmonitors.info/articles/the-evolution-of-led-backlights/#Improving_the_phosphors) so who knows, maybe our eyes prefer the older wled backlights.

Aquila

Gemsand Hi Bro, I'm so sad for your bad experience.

For me the Vg27aqa1a is eccellent but I think for my issues swapping from Ips to Va solved any symptoms.

Have nice day

Gemsand

boomhedshot

Your comments on polarization direction are fascinating sir. So far the following is just a very small amount of anecdotal data but: I just took an old polarizing filter off my camera lens and determined my acceptable monitor is polarized differently than a monitor I have here that bothers me!- and both are polarized different than my acceptable TV. I will be doing some more extensive testing with this and will revert here. Thank you so much for the idea, you may be onto something! (And if so I will also be reaching out to MariusDA on the Reddit post to thank him profusely as well!) Stay tuned…

Aquila

My Updatea on Asus Tuf VG27AQA1A:

I found PWM on low brightness

Dithering not in White background, but in any other colors, in grey wallpaper very strong.

So sad

https://youtube.com/shorts/iYCbkFgemMc?feature=share

EyeDiscomfortCertificate

Aquila It might not necessarily be PWM but Vcom flickering (AKA inversion). It is not a defect of monitor per se, but poor QC.

Aquila

EyeDiscomfortCertificate

Or dithering?

What are the differences on magnifier test, between pixel inversion and dithering?

Thx a lot

I tested on my camera and at low brightness I see vertical Lines.

Gemsand

So, I ran around with a circular polarizer filter and examined a bunch of screens from both categories (both those that I can use for hours a day without a problem, and those that cause me painful eye strain and other symptoms with minimal use). Unfortunately, I found examples of each in all three categories, so I do NOT think polarization is my issue. Below are some examples. The items I list as "GOOD" below are screens I can use all day without an issue, the items I list as "BAD" cause my terrible eye strain with minimal use:

Horizontal polarization: Dell P2014HT 19.5" monitor (GOOD); Motorola One 5G Ace cell phone (GOOD); Samsung LED backlit TV Model UN55TU8000FXZA (GOOD); Sony X85K 43" TV (BAD)

45° polarization: Asus VS247H-P 24" monitor (GOOD); Asus VG248QG 24" gaming monitor (BAD)

Vertical polarization: 2022 Chromebook (GOOD); MSi Optix G273QPF 2022 27" gaming monitor (BAD); a couple other modern gaming monitors I tested (BAD)

Fakir35

Gemsand 45° polarization: Asus VS247H-P 24" monitor (GOOD)

Did you have any experience on gaming with this monitor? Do you recommend it for gaming without eye strain?

Gemsand

Just an update: I purchased the BenQ TK700STi gaming projector (a DLP 4K projector), which uses a lamp bulb as the light source. Since this has no LEDs involved, I figured it wouldn't be a problem- but I was definitely mistaken- this projector definitely caused my eye strain symptoms as well! Since this projector uses pixel shifting to accomplish 4K resolution (like almost all 4K projectors), and since it's DLP (flashing red/ blue/ green can be seen with eye movement), I am now back to strongly suspecting my main issue, like many of us here, is dithering or flickering. (I know PWM doesn't personally bother me as my main tolerable 10 year old monitor uses PWM, but some type of pixel dithering or perhaps even light source flicker itself must be my main problem!)

So, despite my disappointment the BenQ TK700STi projector didn't work out, at least this is helping me narrow down the problem. Despite being so widely thwarted (I've tried something like 32 monitors now!), the hunt optimistically continues!

Aquila

For me the best monitor for my eyes is the HP X27i.

Qhd, 27", 165hz, 4ms, flicker free!

Sunspark

32? Dude, take a break from shopping for awhile. There is such a thing as looking too hard for problems.

Gemsand

Sunspark

If your concern is genuine: Over a period of 6 years sir.

Gemsand

For a long time I dismissed temporal dithering or other pixel dithering as my issue. I dismissed it because:

The Asus VS247H-P monitor from 2013 that I can use all day without an issue is 6 bit + FRC = uses temporal dithering. It also uses PWM. (I’ve tested and confirmed the PWM but technically haven’t test-confirmed the TD.)
I have experienced discomfort with an offending monitor when it is on with black screen/ no signal to monitor, but backlight on.
I have experienced the same symptoms from an LED desk lamp!

This led me to believe the LEDs themselves were somehow causing my eye strain.

However, I am now reconsidering temporal dithering or other flicker as being the primary cause due to the following:

I tried the BenQ TK700STi DLP projector that uses a lamp (not LED!), and it definitely triggered the symptoms. It uses pixel shifting/ flickering (at 240 Hz) to achieve 4K resolution. Also as a DLP projector, I could also easily see the flashing red/ green/ blue “ghosts” of white objects as I moved my eyes quickly.
In offending monitors I’ve always noticed two subjective observations about the color:
- I’ve noticed that the colors just look “not solid” to me. No matter how I tweak the color settings, I can’t get them to feel “solid.” (Meanwhile my 2013 Asus VS247H-P 6 bit + FRC monitor does NOT feel like this to me; the colors feel solid.)
- No matter how I tweak the color settings in the offending monitors, the discomfort persists: however, the “quality” of the feeling/ discomfort does change with color settings change. This implies to me that the monitor may be implementing different dithering with the color settings changes.

Has temporal dithering changed over time? Is there some other kind of flicker present in almost all modern monitors and TVs, that is not present in most phones and handheld devices?

Just thinking out loud in case anyone has any input. I very much appreciate all ideas!

« Previous Page Next Page »