Gemsand Yep, unfortunately there is no silver bullet devices to solve the problem for all of us….
Seeking Tolerable Gaming Monitor! Any thoughts welcome
Not a gaming monitor but with some features incl. freesync, I just got my hands on the LG 27up850 4K IP monitor and it took me about 20 minutes to get used to. I'm in the same boat when it comes to OLEDs, QD-OLEDs etc. and this monitor seems absolutely fine after having used it for 6-8 hours.
MvDoorn that particular model has very high IPS glow, compared to older LGs with older BOE panels. I do not know about the latest BOE panels (inc. UP850) but the one used in UL500 is also somewhat grainy, so if UP850 suffers from this problem too, that would need to be taken unto account too. Some people just do not like BOE panels at all (me including).
Other than that, featurewise, UP850 is an excellent device, esp for the price.
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Scroll through this channel to find a monitor to your likings (depending on budget)
r/monitors discord is also a good place to ask around.
Your list of monitors is quite big, but a thing I've noticed is that most of them are pretty atrocious in terms of motion performance and color accuracy.
The XG2431 might be a good monitor to try if you wanna stick to 1080p 240hz (best monitor in terms of motion performance if strobing is tolerated)
Avoiding KSF phosphor (red trailing during motion is how you find out if it uses it) panels for ≥1440p is recommended, also try going for AT LEAST 240hz (persistence blur which is tolerable to me imo, lower than 240hz is pretty blurry regardless of response times)
AW2721 should be a OK pick for the 1440p category iiic, but do your own research in regards to which panels have and which budget you fancy. I'm not very interested in higher resolution displays due to my budget constraints so I don't look at them that often. The Omen X 27 (has PWM at <100% brightness, so 300nits) and PG27AQN are also top notch displays.
My general advice to people is:
• Avoiding PWM dimming flicker (Rtings tests for this),
• Go for +240hz (with proper refresh rate compliance, OK persistence blur) preferably strobing if tolerated for best motion performance
• Highest PPI possible (or keep monitor further away) to get rid of the 'door' effect
• Calibrating for 5500k and calibrating a proper gamma curve (6500k is fine for most, checking reviewer sites for good options is a start)
• The higher the contrast, the better (sadly, this has to be a compromise for now until OLED/µLED becomes more mainstream)
Calibrating to D58 is better. It will match sunlight.
Thank you for the meaningful input! Two questions please:
(1.) Can you describe more about how you test for KSF phosphor (red trailing during motion)?
(2.) The comments regarding the 240 Hz refresh rate are interesting: since my symptoms have been provoked by desk lights and screens that are on but without looking at any visual content, I haven't considered that the refresh rate might be terribly pertinent. But I do acknowledge that all the monitors I've been able to tolerate were 60 Hz, and the intolerable monitors were between 60 Hz and 144 Hz. I'm wondering if you are thinking there might be a connection with 240 Hz refresh rate and a difference in backlight type or backlight constancy/ flicker somehow?
Just as a bit of context on your other points: PWM on or off itself doesn't seem to affect me, the primary monitor I can use 12 hours a day (Asus VS247H-P) uses PWM and doesn't affect me at all, and my other completely tolerable main work monitor Dell P2014HT doesn't use PWM. Regarding color calibration, the offensive monitors have always seemed to bother me no matter what color settings I play with. In the offensive monitors there is something about the "quality of the light" that is painful, regardless of color settings.
Thank you much to everyone for the thoughts! I remain determined in this quest.
Hi I have a Benq EX2780q:
AAS Ips
27" qhd
8bit + frc
Flicker free
It's uncomfortable. I don't know what is the cause.
Temporal dithering, GPU (3060), pixel inversion.
I'm looking for a VA panel without FRC.
My choice is the Asus Tuf VG27AQA1A:
It's a 2022 model, va panel, 8bit real.
I will try and I'll send you my experience.
Just ordered, it will arrive on Sunday.
Stay tuned guys
Guys this monitor is Amazing.
First time with a Va monitor but after playing for 2 hours no eye strain or other side effects.
I'm so happy
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If that continues to hold- a huge congratulations! Please do keep us appraised- I'll be very interested to hear if that is still your assessment in a few days!
Meanwhile, would you mind sharing just a bit about your (previous) symptoms? In my case I do not feel my eye strain is caused by actually functionally using my eyes (to read for instance) but rather something about the backlight of modern monitors itself just hurts so bad. I don't know if it's color spectrum, some imperceptible flickering, or whatever. Anyway if you also have had sensitivity to the backlight and feel this monitor works for you in a few days I will definitely try it! Thank you so much!
Aquila Hey, any updates so far? I find whites/bright shades discomforting on many monitors. Would be helpful if you shared your current settings; color profile(Gamevisual setting) and what brightness you use or if you tweaked anything else.
Would also be nice to know the panel model if it doesn't bother you to mess with service menu. Or maybe see some ghosting pictures https://www.testufo.com/ghosting. If not it's fine if you just compare to the image below that shows some VA smearing and just share your own experience when gaming, if you noticed any dark smearing or blurriness.
Since you reported no discomfort would be cool to also have this monitor if it's a more modern VA panel. Thanks for sharing.
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On Aquila's comments I ordered the Asus Tuf VG27AQA1A! For me, it DOES still cause my eye strain- but in a different way than the other monitors I've used, and to a lesser extent. I am going to continue to play with it to see if there is any way it might be tolerable for me- so even while I suspect it will probably not be a long term option for me, that is still saying more than any other monitor I've tried so far. I'm not sure what's different about it (maybe the true 8-bit color on a VA panel has something to do with it?), and while it's definitely not 100% great for me like 10+ year old monitors, I'm still encouraged at the difference. I still feel it is the backlight itself that causes me my issues- whether it be the phosphor coatings/ wavelength, flickering, or whatever, I'm not sure- but the fact that this monitor feels different makes me re-consider color-related dithering as a possibility.
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Gemsand Thanks for sharing, that's unlucky, do you know how to check panel model through service menu? That could maybe give some insight if there are any specific coatings and filters for the backlight that alter wavelenghts since it has Low Blue Light certificate. Try setting Gamemode preset to "Racing" using "Warm" color temperature and set Blue Light to level 1 or 2, that should set temperature to 6600k or 6300k based on a review I saw, maybe that could help.
I've been to a store locally with different monitors on display, gaming and non gaming, don't know if it was just the brightness and settings they used but they all looked aggressive to eye except for one, a cheap 24" 75hz Samsung IPS "LF24T350FHRXEN", haven´t personally tried it yet since I'm looking for something better suitable for gaming but that one definitely stood out from the many monitors on display. I also personally tried the BenQ EX240 and it was also tolerable when I set the monitor to a preset that has wider color gamut so in theory it balanced better the wavelenghts of blue/red/green light, it's 6bit+FRC according to displayspecs but true 8bit according to a reddit reply from Benq support that I saw (https://www.reddit.com/r/BenQ/comments/10g3ngn/benq_mobiuz_ex240_panel_model_and_bit_depth/) so I'm not sure. Either way I decided to look for something with no IPS glow and better contrast but it's hard to find anything really.
Thanks for the comments sir, and for the recommendation on the 75 Hz Samsung LF24T350FHRXEN. I've tried ALL settings and color profiles, in 30+ monitors now, and have tried narrowing down LED types or coatings by panel #, all largely to no avail. For me it seems to be something about the LED backlight itself causing my issue.
Update: Unfortunately the Asus Tuf VG27AQA1A is not going to work for me. It does still cause the eye pain and strain symptoms- though not as quickly as some other monitors. The hunt continues.
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Gemsand Sorry, I can imagine your frustration, I guess I won't be considering the VG27AQA1A then, wanna avoid any possible issues too.
Saw this post https://www.reddit.com/r/monitor/comments/we8t0s/to_everyone_with_eye_strain_solutionwtf/ so I went and dug out some old polarized lenses I had, turns out my old LCD is polarized at 45º (diagonal) and when I went to the store again, all LCDs were vertically polarized, LF24T350FHRXEN included, only some TVs were horizontal just like what the polarized sunglasses are used for (horizontal sunlight glare), not sure to what extent polarizers have impact but it's useful to know now, either way just looking at the Samsung still felt like the image was more pleasant and natural to me but would have to test this in more prolonged period and not just staring it at the store.
You could be right about backlight, from what I've been gathering, they have been using different phosphors and diode combinations over time to achieve better colors on LCD (nano IPS, Quantum Dot, other phosphors and alternatives), which affects at which intensity blue, green, red are emited in the spectrum (https://pcmonitors.info/articles/the-evolution-of-led-backlights/#Improving_the_phosphors) so who knows, maybe our eyes prefer the older wled backlights.
Your comments on polarization direction are fascinating sir. So far the following is just a very small amount of anecdotal data but: I just took an old polarizing filter off my camera lens and determined my acceptable monitor is polarized differently than a monitor I have here that bothers me!- and both are polarized different than my acceptable TV. I will be doing some more extensive testing with this and will revert here. Thank you so much for the idea, you may be onto something! (And if so I will also be reaching out to MariusDA on the Reddit post to thank him profusely as well!) Stay tuned…
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My Updatea on Asus Tuf VG27AQA1A:
I found PWM on low brightness
Dithering not in White background, but in any other colors, in grey wallpaper very strong.
So sad