• OS

  • I found a Linux distro that fixes my eyestrain with the default setup!!

jordan also isnt this a form of dithering ?

I think it is more color data remapping, than screen overlay. For example, in 8bit screen, one pixel is 0,0,255 (max blue light), when qualcomm talks they can reproduce 0,0,128 instead. If I got idea properly

    13 days later

    ensete On my Ideapad the difference between 4.15 and 5.4 is great. But I'm not surprised that my suggestion didn't work for you because I couldn't see any difference between kernels on my Thinkpad when I was trying out different kernels a few years ago.

    Yes, let me know the results of your testing.

    Is RDPing into your Lubuntu mini PC comfortable? What brand/model is your mini PC?

      2 months later

      KM

      I tried your suggestion on my bad laptop, a Thinkpad T440 with an Intel iGPU and Ubuntu 20.04. I can confirm there's a significant difference in the image when compositing is turned off on Xfce. The image becomes more stable. But the T440 still gives me a very bad feeling that comes on quickly, so the more still image hasn't helped. I haven't tested this on my T440P (Intel iGPU) that is usable with Windows 10 or my good Ideapad (AMD APU) that is good with Ubuntu 18.04.

      I'm wondering whether we should be trying to test more laptops and PCs that have AMD APUs.

          orangepeel Have you tried the intel_reg command to disable dithering on Linux? I just did it recently on a live USB of Ubuntu on a T480 and it both created very visible banding and seemed to significantly improve the display (aside from the hardware PWM still being there)

          The Ubuntu I tried was a 2019 era version I still had on a USB, so newer versions may have other issues. But this 2019 version of Ubuntu seems to feel close to Win10 1809 — the safe Windows version for the T480 — which is a really good sign

          sudo intel_reg write 70030 0x40

          You might need to run sudo apt install intel-gpu-tools first

          BTW, I am so grateful this command exists today, for years I thought ditherig.exe would not be easy to "port" to Linux but all it takes is this command, and a script to re-run it on resume from sleep and monitor reconnect events

          Also since you have a ThinkPad, you should definitely consider trying different LCDs via panel swapping, as sometimes even if the software is resolved there can still be an issue with the panel

          My T480 was terrible on both Win10 22H2 and Win11 23H2, these OS versions had unique software and rendering-related issues such as a really intense pseudo-3D effect to everything and a general "my depth perception and ability to determine relative proportion and scale is REALLY being messed with" feeling — very similar to MacBooks

          However, after downgrading to a Win10 1809 clean install, these kinds of issues noticeably "stopped" in an obvious way. Now I have a clean image that looks "correct", it doesn't feel "MacBook bad" at all anymore, but it's still straining my eyes a lot if I use it for too long

          Fortunately, now I can easily tell that the "remaining" strain on 1809 is very likely coming from specifically the panel's really bad and detectable hardware PWM, that still exists even after the software fixes LOL

          It was OS related, because driver issues were already ruled out as a possible cause because I tested all 3 Windows versions with identical 2017-era graphics drivers. Even with the same drivers, 1809 was the only Windows version that did not cause those software issues.

          It was not placebo because:

          🔻

          I have a folder of photos I tested on each OS that I already know "look weird on software that messes with my depth perception", and my brain processed the content and composition of those photos completely differently on the "modern" Windows versions vs. 1809.

          For example, one photo I test is a building captured at a slightly exaggerated camera angle, with a tree in the foreground that is at the very edge, i.e. the tree is half out of frame and you can only see the leaves.

          In real life, the tree is entirely in front of the building, but the perspective makes it look like some leaves are above the top of the building and others below.

          • On 22H2, it looked like it was "the leaves at the top look like they're coming from a separate extremely huge tree that is unnaturally placed behind the building, the leaves at the bottom look like they're hovering over the building, I feel very strange pain and disorientation when I try to look 'directly at' the unnaturally large leaves at the top, and I can't simultaneously focus on the top leaves and the bottom leaves at the same time" (incorrect)

          • On 1809, it looked like "all leaves come from a single tree I can intuitively tell should be in front of the building, with no forcefully implied 3D depth, the proportions all look fine and nothing appears too large, and it no longer causes any pain to focus my eyes on any of the leaves" (correct)

          I compared the photo on each Win10 version to my safe 2012 laptop Win8.1 setup, which I know looks "correct" and appears similar to 1809. It was easy to tell that the photo "finally looked like it should" after downgrading to 1809, as I was comparing it side by side to the safe setup the whole time.

          🔺

              DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

              I haven't tried the intel_reg command yet. I think disabling the spatial dithering won't help much.

              Yes, trying a different LCD panel might work, but I've read that some people couldn't fix their symptoms even after trying several panels, so that deters me.

              Yeah, I've considered going back to Win10 1809 or earlier too because 22H2 which I'm using now is much less comfortable than those earlier versions. I used to use a much earlier version (maybe 1809) and then I did a clean install from the ISO downloaded from the Microsoft website and it was much harsher to look at, but by that stage the Microsoft website didn't have an older version of Windows 10 for me to download. It's a shame that 22H2 is so disorientating for you on your T480. I'm not getting disorientated like you when using my T440P, but it's definitely quite harsh. Do you know where older versions of Windows 10 can be downloaded that are genuine?

              Now that you mention the 3D effect, I've experienced something like this when my good laptop was connected to my TV with 1980x1080 resolution. It results in a big headache for me. So I use the 1360x768 resolution instead which allows me to watch films for hours and hours with no symptoms.

                  orangepeel but I've read that some people couldn't fix their symptoms even after trying several panels

                  Honestly I bet those people were running modern Windows versions, lol, yeah the panel won't fix anything there (T480 with Innolux panel and T480s with LG panel caused very similar symptoms on Win10 22H2 and Win11 23H2 respectively)

                  However, after downgrading both to 1809, the "shared symptoms" stopped on both of them and it it was now easy to tell the difference and determine which issues are unique to the Innolux 1080p vs. the LG 1440p panel — only after I installed 1809 is when I finally felt confident that panel swapping could have potential

                    orangepeel Do you know where older versions of Windows 10 can be downloaded that are genuine?

                    I just find it on archive org and avoid anything that looks obviously modified

                    (I don't think I can send a link to the 1809 November 2018 version I use tho, as someone else did that and got their link removed by a moderator even though it was a normal copy that needs to be activated by the user in order to use it anyway)

                    For some reason Rufus complains about incompatibility with secure boot when burning an old ISO, but I looked this up and it seems to be fine as it people still get this error on 100% known official ISOs they downloaded years ago from Microsoft's website if they try to burn it again today. I'm assuming that secure boot only signs current versions which is why you have to disable it to downgrade (similar to macOS)

                    It's a shame that 22H2 is so disorientating for you on your T480. I'm not getting disorientated like you when using my T440P

                    Yeah the worst problems seem to happen when more modern Intel graphics hardware is combined with a newer Windows version (even though driver version doesn't matter)

                    • Surface Pro 4 with HD 515 is "fine enough" on Win10 22H2 with a generally flat image and no immediate weirdness

                    • T480 and T480s with UHD 620 are unusable on Win10 22H2 and later, only 1809 is safe

                        DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

                        It's ok. I can find it myself. Yeah, the modified copies of Windows 10 might contain malware, so people shouldn't download them. Yes, I think you're right in regard to your comments about secure boot. I think this is why I originally decided to download from the microsoft website in the first place, because I wanted a copy that would work with secure boot and wasn't tampered with. Maybe there are other ways to verify that they're genuine, but I don't know much about this.

                            orangepeel Maybe there are other ways to verify that they're genuine, but I don't know much about this.

                            I agree with using archive.org, and there are unofficial databases with the hashes of official Windows 10 ISOs which you can use to verify their authenticity. Beyond that, you can also usually find reddit (or other forum) posts where people asked for and shared the hashes. So, nothing official, but you can at least verify using multiple sources. I just did it for Windows 10 1809 and there were plenty of references for the hashes online.

                              dev