• HardwareLaptop

  • I'm testing as many MacBooks as possible. Here are the results.

JTL If you will have a courage to replace "I" with "we", we might have a chance for success - as collective legal action is more effective then the one which comes from a single individual.

As to an analogy of McDonalds - this refers to a term called "McDonaldization". It is a proper academic term taught in universities throughout the world. It is used in this context to enlighten broader context of organizations, products and its users.

Apart from actual term, juxtaposition of two brands that are very well known is very appropriate in my opinion. As it shares some common traits such as convenience and simplicity, yet on another side of a spectrum there is a hidden externalities of scientifically proved bad diet, as well as - eye strain as we observe in in this forum and website. People struggle, yet at the same time they are addicted. There is similar strategies of neuromarketing at play. Perhaps, there was a reason why many CEO's of major brands do not share the same consumption patterns as ordinary consumers do.

Back to the legal action, if it is provable that apple products have caused symptoms people describe on this website, (e.g. documenting various observable flickers and causes of it, as well as how eye reacts to it with help of medical professionals), apple is fully responsible for it and it means it has to compensate those individuals. This is negligence. General rule if you are in position of great influence or/and power, you have universally expected duty of care. So apple knowingly or unknowingly shipped products that have observable flaws which renders them unfit for use without causing a harm. And - if not all customers are affected by it - there must be a legal clause and/or notice to consumers about it. Just like with nuts for example, as some people have allergy to it and even could die from it. Failure to inform consumers, would cause direct responsibility to the company for any negative outcomes people with allergy to nuts have experienced.

    a month later

    macsforme I can also confirm that one of my 2015 machines has a harsh panel while another has a calm panel (subjectively). The other two have not been tested extensively yet.

    macsforme Three of the four (including the one I subjectively find most comfortable) return the exact same entire EDID string, while the fourth is not a byte-for-byte match but when parsed by edid-decode all values still appear to be the same.

    Just in case anyone might rely on it, I wanted to officially recant my claim that one of my four 2015 15-inch Retina MacBook Pro screens was more comfortable than the others. In fact, all four seem uncomfortable in roughly equal degree. There were some differences depending on the operating system version and configuration running on the machine each screen was connected to, which initially led me to mistakenly believe there was a variation. At the end of the day, after a day or two of use (with a delayed onset), all of these 2015 15-inch Retina MacBook Pro screens give me headaches and vision problems.

    I plan to make another thread sharing more research and overall findings regarding this MacBook model with regards to eye strain.

          macsforme Good to know, yep, this lines up with my experience - my 2015 15" AMD rMBP sucks. The thing I'm interested in though is how much better are the 2012/13/14 NVIDIA rMBP models?

          I made a huge mistake picking up a 2015 15" when I heard many people relied on 2013 15" models here (naively thinking it was the same exact laptop with just slightly newer specs and Force Touch, which it wasn't).

          In fact I remember reading that the display connector was modified between 2014 and 2015, all older Retina LCD panels cannot fit into specifically the 2015 model.

          I really want to know whether the earlier models truly are that much better - or it's just that the people here who rely on NVIDIA models are only PWM sensitive and not temporal dithering sensitive

          And how about Samsung vs. LG panels, and the older variant of LG panels present on Late 2012/Early 2013 that had the image persistence issues? Or Early 2013 15" vs. Late 2013 15" in general? I wonder which panel / device combo is truly the best in regards to comfort

            macsforme Thanks for the update. I actually just received my M1 Macbook Air 13" the other day and tried using StillColor and blue light apps, and my blue light blocking glasses and I felt the same eyestrain that I have with every other M1/M2/M3 Macbook Air/Pro. I'm not sure what they're cooking over there at Apple, but I really wish they would give us some more configuration options. I'm glad I'm not the only one who struggles with MacBook laptops (and their MacBook Mini).

            FYI, I returned the Macbook Air M1 13" to the store

                whystrainwhy you're definitely not the only one. The 13" M1 is the machine I discovered this problem on. Was really looking forward to it too.

                Hopefully enough of us returning them for eye strain and headaches will get noticed by them.

                    wlmsn Oh believe me I understand. July of 2023 I ordered one of the most powerful M2 MacBook Pros they offered and was super excited to use it, but then after like 30 minutes of use, I felt like my eyes were fatigued, I felt sleepy, had a headache and was really confused as to why I was having this feeling, but ever since then (actually since October 2022 with another Laptop I bought and tried), I've been trying to figure this out heh. At least we're all here trying to help each other so that's nice 🙂

                      a month later

                      Has anyone tried the 16 inch version (intel), any success with turning off dithering and no eye strain as well as 15 inch (intel) MAS-76 ?

                        Lauda89 If you are desperate, I can use the MacBook Air 15 M2 by taking a drug called fluxarten. In my case 5mg per day is enough and I can work.

                        Wow, this you are saying is so revelatory of the injurious nature of luminescent light, even go as far as taking medications to make it more tolerable... incredible, the point we are now. I suggest you get an incandescent monitor or make your own!, incandescence can be thought of as the opposite of luminescence, and regenerates instead of degenerates.

                          a month later

                          Donux

                          I still get some discomfort from the built-in MBP 14" M2 Pro screens and I don't use them for long period of time.

                          I've been doing some experimenting and I feel the most comfortable while using Dell S2722QC with Stillcolor and (a very recent finding) Gunnar Attache glasses with Amber lenses. I'm still trying to figure out why these glasses provide me so much relief. I also bought Gunnar Mateo with Amber lenses, but for some reason they aren't as effective. Maybe the thicker rims of the Attache model provide some sort of sense of perspective for my eyes. They help more than than the doctor-prescribed ones with small negative diopters (I had a laser surgery several years ago, but my vision has worsened a bit). The Gunnar glasses that I own use the Gunnar Focus lenses which have +0.2 prescription and different filters/coatings.

                          I also own Apple Studio Display and Dell P2723QE, but they give me noticeably more discomfort.

                            Can someone confirm this cat "MBP 16" M1 Pro" is as good as claimed? It sounds like a good buy, big screen, M1 so will be cheaper, but still very relevant in terms of performance.

                              Donux One of my friends has a 16" M1 mini-LED, and even though I notice it is "slightly" better than the absolutely terrible 14" M1 mini-LED (the worst screen ever made IMO), I still notice I get constant double vision and text focusing issues when looking at my friend's 16" M1 laptop. Just watched him use his laptop again yesterday. Started looking blurry and hazy to me constantly after only 5 minutes. The glare is also super intense just like the 14", i.e. worse than LCD Macs.

                              IMO, do NOT buy any M1 or later Mac.

                              (except for specifically a used M2 13" Touch Bar MBP, this is the only Apple Silicon Mac that is even worth trying — but even then, you have to make sure you received one with a "000000" in the panel ID because of a panel lottery. Those ones were at least tolerable to me, but the ones without the zeroes are unusable)

                                  asus389

                                  Run this in Terminal to get the panel ID on a M1/M2/M3 MacBook:

                                  ioreg -lw0 | grep -e "panel-serial-number" -e coverglass

                                      DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs So if this is a panel issue, why so many people claim external portable screens like asus zenscreen or others do not work for them either? It would be quite easy to buy external portable monitor, plug into usb-c and rest it on the built in screen, problem would seam like fixed at 200 usd price. Or maybe this was not tested properly with new findings, i.e. disable dither and bit rate selection options?

                                        dev