Products to try or avoid? PWM Flicker and Temporal Dithering Testing
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ordered the new lenovo legion 7 pro. really hope it doesn’t fuck my eyes.
edit: it’s the 2024 model and i read that it supports 100% dci-p3? if that’s true does that mean the screen is different and may prove to be worse for the eyes?
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Dadab12
I have model: 16IRX8H
It's your call and you also have panel lottery even if you get the exact same model version.
What works for me may not work for you. Here is what I do:
Edit: Use it only at 240hz refresh rate on the laptop display. Don't set it to 60hz (some might prefer the opposite)
Use it around 3 feet or about 1 meter away from the laptop display. For me less light in my peripheral vision is better.
The 7i is on a laptop stand with the screen top set up around eye level (basic ergonomics)
My environment is lit as much as possible with natural light not other LED lighting.
I use non-flickering reading lamps as monitor bias lighting in the evening.
Use an external keyboard
Turn off and never use the laptop keyboard backlight as it has strong flicker
A blue blocking colored gel filter is used to make the screen look less harsh
I'm still testing the iris blue light filter app (https://iristech.co/)
I try to do the 20-20-20 routine: https://www.healthline.com/health/eye-health/20-20-20-rule
I am working on liver and kidney health as their is connection between eyes and the rest of the body
(e.g. https://www.carahealth.com/health-articles/traditional-chinese-medicine/traditional-chinese-medicine-the-eyes)
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Appreciate it.
i actually don’t know what to do. the store i bought it from no longer has the older models and the price similar anyways.
one of the reasons i wanted to buy a pro 7 was because of your positive experience in regards to eye sight health. can’t say i’m not concerned. so it’s either i roll with it and hope for the best or cancel my order and look for the older model across different stores for roughly the same price or a tad cheaper. hilarious.
why do you suggest an external keyboard? for what purpose? i’d like to use this laptop across different rooms and even take it out with me sometimes lol
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I forgot to mention I have more eyestrain when running my 7i at 60hz so I leave it at 240hz. Mine defaults to 240hz out of the box. It should be the same with your newer version. If you could give me the full specs of your purchase, maybe I can confirm some things.
Edit: also I installed the version 532.10 nvidia studio driver for the rtx gpu not the game ready driver. No particular reason I installed version 532.10 as I'm still exploring older driver versions for potential solutions to reduce eyestrain.
If the 7i (whichever model) does not work out, in this discussion I have also tested my T480s (bought ebay used for around $200-$300). I run linux mint 21.3 with it now and tested windows 1809 enterprise LTSC on it as well and both feel relatively comfortable. I swapped the LG screen panel it came with for the AUO panel because of my microscope testing. The AUO panel seemed to have less pixel flicker. The T480s I have does not have discrete gpu so no gaming. Their is another version of the T480s with nvidia mx150 discrete gpu. I don't know if the mx150 has temporal dithering issues. In any version, it's a work laptop.
The forum member DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs mentioned the 2012 Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga with Win8.1 as safe here:
https://ledstrain.org/d/2686-i-disabled-dithering-on-apple-silicon-introducing-stillcolor-macos-m1m2m3/521
I use an external thinkpad keyboard first because the laptop is placed on a stand away from me and to raise the monitor to eye level forcing me not to have too bad posture. Second reason is less potential "EMF" (basically electrical interference with your body, sounds weird right?) but that is a tricky and controversial topic even more so than LED flickering.
I found these reading lights very comfortable. Battery powered. Opple 4 testing shows a close to flat line (flatter than the computers and displays I've tested so far).
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Basic Information in EDID in case it is useful for capture card analysis (WIP)
https://www.extron.com/article/uedid
EDID Emulation Devices:
gofanco Prophecy 4K EDID Tester – 17 EDID Modes, Programmable EDID Copier & Manager
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SSD8VR8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-EDID-Emulator-HDMI-Displays/dp/B01FJYUEC0
@photon78s Hey, so I'm currently testins the new Lenovo legion and it's a mixed bag. I have lower level of eyestrain, although very much present when browsing and it outside of gaming. I'm using sRGB and been tinkering with the brightness and Iris as well.
When I'm playing a game the eyestrain goes up a notch. I also see like tearing/stutters when moving my mouse and looking around. It's not a smooth transition. Similar thing happens when I watch a basketball game on youtube for example.
I tried running ufotest and it doesn't run because it says that there is a microstutter detected. What would you do?
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Is your panel refresh rate 240fz or 60hz? The Fn key + r keyboard shortcut toggles refresh rate.
What is your OS? Do you have the normal gpu drivers installed or are you running microsoft basic adapter. Did you set 8 bit color depth in Nvidia Control Panel? Have you tried using ColorControl to try to turn off temporal dithering: https://github.com/Maassoft/ColorControl
When running https://www.testufo.com/ I get stutter in Brave (despite using 4080 gpu hardware acceleration) but no stutter warning in firefox.
What browser are you using when you get eyestrain? Certain apps can cause more dithering type flicker.
When playing a game, make sure you are running on mains power not battery. I don't play games anymore but if you are ok with only 60 fps in certain games, I would try setting the max framerate to 60 fps using a setting in Nvidia Control Panel.
It's set to 240hz. I updated the OS to to Win 11 23H2.
It was actually starting to get better, sorta. But then I decided to uninstall my GPU drivers using DDU(does it remove the chipset and integrated graphics card drivers? is it even necessary to use DDU?) and installed the latest Nvidia GPU driver. Nothing more. eyestrain seems worse now.It is set to 8bit color depth.
For some reason I can not use Colorcontrol when I use Hybrid mode. When it's set to dGPU I can and it says that dithering is disabled. Why do you think I can't use Colorcontrol when it used the integrated?
I'm using Floorp, dark theme. I'm having trouble with white backgrounds. Also realized my eyestrain is much better at night.
I was wondering if playing around with the drivers can make changes that are irreversible? I read that some users that updated their windows(not sure if it's Mac or Win) and they suddenly began to experience much more strain and couldn't revert to the previous experience.
Dadab12 what If you try a Nvidia studio driver instead ? Can you disable automatic color management in windows ? Worst case you could try to run mint version 20 Linux with open source drivers. Could be comfortable maybe ? Otherwise I think older win10 build like 1809 is the safer option compared to win11.