photon78s My question would be if certain low quality panels like probably on the T480s flicker more and more over the course of the day due to poor manufacturing tolerances/design and thus contributing to the computer work fatigue over the work day (you feel fine in the morning and later more and more fatigued as the screen silently increases the flicker to add to that fatigue).

I do know that as the LCD warms up, it will flicker more because the liquid in the LCDs becomes more viscous. In my testing (which isn't necessarily comprehensive), my monitors reached a steady-state temperature and flicker after about 15 minutes.

      GregAtkinson

      I read sometime similar in Eizo documentation about letting the display warm up for color accuracy. Perhaps something else is the cause that has intermittent behavior.

      You might be interested in this paper on OLED flicker from 2020 if you haven't read it already:
      https://ledstrain.org/d/2652-eyestrain-from-oled-monitorstvs-but-not-oled-smartphones-a-theory/23

          photon78s Perhaps something else is the cause that has intermittent behavior.

          In my experience, some panels temporarily disable pixel inversion under certain conditions. For instance, for some panels, I can only see the pixel inversion when the image only takes up a small part of the screen. And once I display a large image, it isn't enough to make the image smaller - I have to make the image smaller, then maximize a different window (like I am somehow resetting the screen) and then bring up the smaller image and then I can see the pixel inversion. And it isn't just my eyes playing tricks on me because the photodetector is detecting the same thing.

          That's a pretty specific example and it might not apply to your situation, but it does indicate that pixel inversion can be intermittent.

              GregAtkinson

              This is not directly relevant I think to pixel inversion but this oled paper does make me suspect some limitation inherent in the engineering of screens that is causing these behaviors:

              Improving Flicker of Low-Refresh-Rate Driven Active-Matrix Organic Light-Emitting Diode Display
              https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/9852200

              We propose a novel driving method to suppress the brightness variation by applying a high voltage to the source and drain of the DTFT during the non-emitting time which is inserted periodically for dimming the organic light-emitting diode (OLED) display. Our experimental results show that the brightness variation can be reduced from 3.7 % to 1.4 % at the 63rd gray level by the proposed DTFT reset scheme.

              I don't understand this statement (flicker at low frequencies?):

              Especially, brightness stability could become a critical problem because human sensitivity to brightness is increased under lower refresh rate

                  photon78s I don't understand this statement:

                  Especially, brightness stability could become a critical problem because human sensitivity to brightness is increased under lower refresh rate

                  Maybe they mean "...human sensitivity to brightness instability or variation"??? I've put the whole paragraph here for reference.

                  However, in order to take advantages of LTPO, some technical challenges should be taken on. Modified pixel circuits and additional process steps are mandatory. Nevertheless, unknown problems may occur. Especially, brightness stability could become a critical problem because human sensitivity to brightness is increased under lower refresh rate [5], [6], [7], [8]. It has been reported that brightness variation is detected irrespective of charge loss in the storage capacitor even with LTPO [8]. The brightness instability under a low-refresh-rate may result from many unknown causes. Our measurement data show that electron trapping into the gate insulator of the driving TFT is one of the causes of the brightness instability. We propose a novel solution to this problem and report the effects of our solution under the low-refresh-rate driving condition.

                  When I read articles like this I'm reminded that I'm an amateur kind of grasping at straws hoping to find something...

                      GregAtkinson

                      The frustrating thing is where are the "real pros" in the industry who have eyestrain issues? Anyways, my takeaway is that they are trying to lower power consumption (LTPO tech), and they are acknowledging the downside of "brightness instability" and trying to find a "solution" because the industry demands it. The rest is EE jargon.

                          3 months later

                          photon78s

                          Sir, could you help me, and write, how to connect Fnirsi 1C15 to photodiode (which one?), to measure flickering…?

                              14 days later
                              a month later

                              Others have stated how coil whine on this forum and how it contributes to symptoms or just general frustration while using devices.

                              I was using a desktop with a 7950X and 4060 ti gpu with very loud high pitched noise coming from the gpu area. Tried tinkering with bios and power management settings made no difference. I then opened a program called airfoil maker from the X-Plane 12 flight simulator program and that seems to eliminate the noise! Interestingly in task manager, I don't see any significant rise in gpu or cpu use which is great for power consumption as well.

                              Nevermind, the noise comes back.

                                ninjaturtle

                                In the brief time I was using it, it did not make me sleepy. YMMV. Unfortunately, I don't have the device I was using previously to measure spectrum but Benq does not advertise anytime special like quantum dots, etc.

                                  Benq (especially the ones with eyecare/safe with the blue shifter of some nanometers) makes me sleepy and dumb during the day. Very bad. While some with blue peak around 445nm bother me very much, that is why I am interested in the spectrum. I am wondering if i can find any panel in the middle, maybe something like Apple monitors.

                                  • JJTL

                                  • Post #335

                                  qb74 Coil whine can be a crapshoot. From what I've experienced it can be a sum of per component unit variance, quality of AC input power, quality of output of PSU (maybe add to part of per component unit variance), function of total power consumption of components, etc. If you exchange components, you can get lucky and encounter no/little noise. Some people have had resolution by feeding their equipment from double conversion UPS's which provide a stable source of AC output power as well.

                                    qb74

                                    Thank you for that link. Placing the computer as far away as possible and having obstructions between you and the source of the sound since it seems to be very high frequency directional sound might help as well and common sense.

                                    qb74 People in these forums heavily underestimate the physiological & psychological aspects of eyestrain, especially when biology crosses into the electromagnetic world.

                                        Some e-ink screens claiming 60 Hz refresh rate. We shall see.

                                        https://www.modos.tech/blog/modos-paper-monitor

                                        https://www.tomshardware.com/monitors/portable-monitors/e-ink-screen-performance-hits-60-hz-with-10-3-inch-portable-touchscreen-monitor-from-dasung

                                        https://www.techspot.com/news/106433-dasung-new-paperlike-103-portable-e-ink-monitor.html

                                        From the modos website (emphasis mine):

                                        The display is always refreshed to 1-bit mode first, then drives to 2-bit / 4-level greyscale after a preset time (for example, around 200ms). The process is non-flashing. This allows smooth typing while maintaining greyscale antialiasing for texts on the screen.

                                        We are also planning to implement a 16-level greyscale mode with similar logic, but the 16-level will be flashing. Flashing/ flickering causes distraction and won’t work well for typing, but it could be useful for reading.

                                        For the error-diffusion issue, we are evaluating using simpler dithering methods such as patterned dithering that would generate an image with arguably worse quality but could be more pleasant / causes less distraction when in typical desktop use.

                                        a month later
                                        dev