I have a macbook pro m3. It came with sonoma 14.5, and I had some slight irritation while looking at the screen. After downloading stillcolor, it was just fine to use for hours. I recently updated to 14.6 and the pain was back, even with stillcolor. Today I put my macbook into low power mode always on, and this has relieved some pain.

    is there any way to disable dithering for android ?

    DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs used this for a month now. Almost fixed my 15 pro max. Tried turning it off yesterday and had pretty significant eye strain thru the day. Not just when looking at the phone. Also had this shitty effect where reds on other monitors seem really bright.

      I remember few month ago, you guys were discussing TCON here, just found info on apple website for their Apple Pro XDR Display.

      It looks like it's made by apple.

        madmozg Interesting, I have not noticed this. But what does it mean? All those Airs, Pros macbooks are designed by apple too? Or is it a new messaging that could potentially mean, all products that have this mentioned, have some change in TCON?

            Donux If remember correctly @aiaf was doing some research for TCON from another manufacturer, so I just wanted to share that looks like apple have their own tcon chip.

              madmozg oh wait I just realized, if they mentioned TCON chip, does it mean that Apple Pro XDR display is not a true 10bit display, but controlled by FRC and mini-LED?

              • aiaf replied to this.

                  I do not know what it means, bet I have very noticeable eye strain even using macbook with noMachnine remote connection from Windows laptop. Is this expected considering that TCON is flawed? From my side dithering disabled on betterDisplay app.

                    waydabber happy to report that this works! This is a major step into solving another piece of the temporal dithering puzzle. Thank you! I no longer need to use an old HDMI wire to force 8bpc on my external monitor.

                    Tested on SAMSUNG 32” Odyssey G7 with Display Port. Using @Blooey gradient image, banding is obvious in
                    8-bit mode vs 10-bit mode (GPU/DCP dithering disabled in both cases)

                    For anyone out of the loop, this means that external displays that are reported to be 10-bit as 8-bit+FRC can now function in native 8-bit mode without temporal dithering. No need for crappy wires!

                    Additionally, with GPU/DCP dithering disabled, you can guarantee that the display receives a clean 8-bit signal from your Apple Silicon Mac.

                    The only issue as reported here is the display reverting back to 10-bit mode on sleep which is very inconvenient.

                        madmozg a TCON has many necessary functions besides FRC. It is widely reported that Pro Display XDR is the only true 10-bit display in Apple's product line.

                            martin_86

                            Wow thank you for sharing this! Setting battery setting to low power mode does seem also have to effect for me. (MBA15 M2) I'm not sure why, but I suspect it disables some UI glare/shine effects.

                              aiaf isn't your monitor true 10bit display ?

                              • aiaf replied to this.

                                  madmozg I don't think I've ever tried a true 10-bit monitor. Certainly none of the ones I have are.

                                    aiaf I tried many times in person that monitor. I've tested it with opple device and it didn't show any PWM for it, but it still gives me very slight symptoms. So I'm confused why:

                                    • If its a true 10bit display and still gives weird symptoms, then the problem is with Apple chips and their gpu drivers
                                    • If its not true 10bit, then it explains my slight symptoms
                                    • It can be a mini-led, but I didn't find any flickering with opple or with my camera. I tested on white and dark backgrounds.

                                    But after tons of all the tests I made already with all apple devices, I'm leaning towards that apple chips and the drivers are somehow fcked. I still remember how bad was start of their M1 chips, when you connected mac mini or laptop with M1 to external display, it made that display flicker. I know it's another problem, but I think its coming from the same global apple chip problem.

                                    Here is opple results for Apple Pro XDR Display.

                                    • aiaf replied to this.

                                        madmozg if a true 10-bit monitor is driven by an Apple Silicon Mac it will still receive a temporally dithered image, this we established. Did you try it with GPU/DCP dithering disabled using Stillcolor or BetterDisplay? If temporal dithering is not your issue, it could be another type of LED light sensitivity or some other mechanism of these displays.

                                            aiaf StillColor was not helping me with other external monitors and Mac silicon, thats why I didn't try it with XDR display. I will try BetterDisplay and my own monitors, and then will try with XDR display. Will post results later.

                                            • aiaf replied to this.

                                                madmozg you're wasting your time if you're testing Apple Silicon Macs and external monitors without disabling GPU/DCP dithering! We've proven in multiple empirical ways that Stillcolor and BetterDisplay's disable GPU Dithering options prevent the Mac from sending a temporally dithered image over the wire.

                                                  Here is a hardware confirmation that BetterDisplay 8/10bit switch works as intended.

                                                  From the feelings perspective, I prefer 8bit for now. I need to test more with 10bit.

                                                  I'm currently testing on MSI MPG321UR-QD, its a true 10bit panel. From the microscope perspective I didn't see any difference tho, don't know why yet. Will upload videos later.

                                                  Have also a question, if for example monitor have 8bit + FRC panel and the laptop sends just 8bit signal, is that monitor still goin to use FRC ?

                                                  Thanks @waydabber and @aiaf for the hard work.

                                                    madmozg keep testing, also try YCbCr and Limited Range options, you might feel a difference.

                                                    For commercial microscopes and cameras, they aren't sensitive enough to measure these tiny differences in light. I tried.

                                                    madmozg Have also a question, if for example monitor have 8bit + FRC panel and the laptop sends just 8bit signal, is that monitor still goin to use FRC ?

                                                    It shouldn't use FRC in that scenario.

                                                        There is no way apple is not listening. It created these forums in order to have them close so it could listen to the customers better. Top of a range machine has quite a few people raising the same issue:

                                                        dev