We invented a tablet to serve the eye-strain community. We’re Not E-ink Our LivePaper technology looks like e-ink, but allows you to browse the web, watch videos, and even play games - all with no blue light, no lag, and no flicker. Free Tablet Giveaway We’re giving away one free tablet! Leave a comment and you’ll be entered in the raffle to win. Leave a question, feedback, your personal eye strain story - even skepticism : ) We know this is a new product, so we expect people to be a little skeptical! We can’t wait to see your comments. We’re from a company called Daylight Computer Co, and even though we’re doing our official launch soon, we wanted to offer this sneak peek to the community that we think will most benefit from our technology. The support of the eye strain community means a lot to us, and we hope you’ll stay with us up to our launch, and beyond! Give-away winner will be selected and announced on 6/15. Check us out here, and subscribe to stay updated! GIVEAWAY ANNOUNCEMENT: Dear LEDstrain community, Thank you so much for sharing your interest and comments here. We really appreciate it. Apologies for the delay - our small team was a bit overwhelmed by the response to our launch! We are so excited to announce the winner of the Daylight Computer giveaway. Our randomly selected winner is......drumroll drumroll drumroll..... Seagull! Congratulations @Seagull ! You will be one of the very first people to get your hands on the Daylight Computer! Six years of research, design, and work went into making this product, and we truly hope you love what we created! Please email us at: hello@daylightcomputer.com for the logistics of receiving the Daylight Computer. Thank you everyone for your interest and support. Although only one user is selected to receive the Daylight Computer, all of the stories you shared meant so much to us. We hope to succeed in our first product roll-out and bring many more eye-friendly devices to the world! If you have any questions about our product or how it is more eye-strain friendly - please continue to comment or contact us directly! Sincerely, The Daylight team

New Tablet Giveaway - NO blue light. NO flicker.

orangepeel

E-ink causes me nausea, but if your product produces good reviews here I may order one and try it. How did you get it to work at 60fps?

Daylight_Co

orangepeel Thanks for the great question! And I'm sorry to hear about your nausea. We have a setting in the tablet that pushes it to work at 60-120 fps. So no effort required.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Was temporal dithering (known as "surface dithering" in the Android system) disabled in your fork of Android 13 to prevent the additional subpixel flicker that affects newer Android devices?

If not, y'all need persist.sys.use_dithering=0 in your build.prop to disable it 😉

Temporal dithering is when display drivers, usually by default, are configured to flash between two similar colors over and over again to try to approximate an "in-between color" in order to fake "smoother" color transitions in photos, gradients, transparency, and shadow effects, in addition to inducing flicker and "shimmer" on the grayscale edges of pretty much all antialiased text (because of the many shades of gray present at edges of text).

Temporal dithering can exist in different forms both at the GPU/OS level (the aforementioned "surface dithering" Android feature) — and at the LCD panel level (known as FRC/Frame Rate Control)

This unfortunate tactic is used on pretty much all modern iOS and Mac devices, and most importantly, I'm pretty sure is also the display driver default on recent Android versions such as 13.

For example, my PWM-free iPhone SE 2 still has extremely annoying temporal dithering flicker to my eyes when looking at a static page, compared to my old iPhone 6 that appears much more comfortable, still, and honestly more beautiful. I also own an iPhone 5 with iOS 6 that appears entirely still.

Because of this pixel-level flicker, the SE 2 is not a comfortable device to use despite not showing obvious backlight flicker on a slow motion camera.

E-ink devices are usually immune to this as they simply don't refresh when a static page is being displayed, but given that your display is a 60fps RLCD, it's extremely important that this additional source of pixel flicker is verified not to be present in your version of Android.

For me and many other members of this forum, devices that utilize heavy temporal dithering — even with a PWM-free backlight — can sometimes cause just as much (or more) eye strain and reading difficulties as devices that use PWM dimming.

Let me know if your team has already been aware of this 🙂

twomee

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs can I turn off dithering on android by this line?

persist.sys.use_dithering=0

Daylight_Co

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs Great insight! I'm going to pass this along to my engineering team and get back to you!

Daylight_Co

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs Thanks for your thoughts! Really good stuff.

So, our pixels do not emit light, which means there is no flicker. And because our screen renders only black and white, we don't suffer from temporal dithering.

KM

To me it seems that option is the same as "Surface Dithering" in Developer Options. If I understand correctly, it is static dithering and not temporal dithering. I.e. it is not to be classified as "pixel flicker" and there are is no change happening over time. Though the information available online seems rather limited, and online talk about this does typically not differentiate between "static" and "temporal", so I'd be curious what others here think.

vegeta97

I'd love to win this and I have an eink yt channel so I'll do a review. I recently bought the tcl nxtpaper 40 and while it does reduce eye strain its still an lcd with filters and matte screen. Is yours RLCD?

Daylight_Co

vegeta97 Hi, thanks for your question! The Daylight Tablet uses a special kind of ePaper, with some proprietary IP that makes it - in our humble opinion - pretty darn special. We call it LivePaper. It's similar to the Pebble watch.

It lets us look like e-ink, while having a fast and smooth frame rate.

Also, what's your Youtube channel? I'd love to check it out!

jordan

I really hope it doesn't use temporal dithering or FRC. I think everyone here would prefer true 6 bit over 6+2frc. Can you verify if this tablet uses FRC and dithering ?

I wish it was 120hz or at least 90hz refresh rate

jordan

Daylight_Co so this is capable of 120hz refresh rate ?

Daylight_Co

jordan Correct! The Daylight Tablet maxes out at 120hz.

jordan

Daylight_Co wow that's awesome! If this thing does not use FRC and is true 8 or true 6 bit color depth and not 6+2 FRC or 8-2frc, and does not use any form of dithering.. I will totally buy one

jordan

Daylight_Co is there anyway to enable color? Such as in developer settings or something ? Not a deal breaker just curious

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Daylight_Co So, our pixels do not emit light, which means there is no flicker

No light emission does not mean no flicker.

For example, I own a BOOX e-reader with Android that I run almost all of the time with the screen frontlight disabled, meaning it's purely naturally illuminated.

Since the screen can only display literally black and white, meaning no shades of grayscale (unless it's set to the really slow HD mode, where it actually does display real gray), it uses dithering in order to display shades of gray.

Thankfully, when it's still, it doesn't refresh with nothing happening (because e-ink doesn't need to)

But whenever I'm scrolling, or something on the screen is animated, the dithering of these shades of gray then starts needing to recalculate itself every single frame. This causes really obvious flicker, twitching edges of text, etc. while the screen is in motion, even though there is no backlight.

Thankfully, it's not that bad for me on the BOOX because this is only happening when the screen is moving anyway (because my problems are usually related to when this happens while the screen is supposed to be still)

But if your screen is constantly running at 60fps, there can 100% be sources of possible flicker introduced at the pixel level that aren't related to having or not having a backlight.

smilem

This screen is bw only?

Maxx

I think this is some kind of scam.

It seems to be just and LCD that is made to be black and white, but I don't see any reason why it would not have temporal dithering or other source of flickering as any other LCD.

Why they just cannot make the displays they made some 7 years ago - those were perfectly strain free, just copy that techn and most of us would be done. No need for any fance e-ink or reflective LCD's. It's not about blue light at all, it's all about flickering due to various forms of dither and PWM.

Alyosha2001

Maxx Why they just cannot make the displays they made some 7 years ago - those were perfectly strain free, just copy that techn and most of us would be done. No need for any fance e-ink or reflective LCD's. It's not about blue light at all, it's all about flickering due to various forms of dither and PWM.

Agree 100%. The fact that a screen has no backlight does not exclude flicker; it is not even a 2 way dependance, like the backlight can be flicker-free, not tens of kilotertz mumbo-jumbo. Instead of going back to a solid-tested route, the producers like to scratch the left side of their head with the right hand, bringing up all kind of marketing gimmicks.

One other main issues is that the marketers don't even understand the problem (therefore neither the fix) and they just relay on whatever the tech division tells them. They sell something that sounds cool.

magi44ken

Maxx I totally agree with you on this. But maybe this have to do with fining manufacturer that can produce them.

Do you know what are the technical specs that 7nuesrs old lcd design that make so eye friendly?

Two things that I really like about eink display is no really bright light shining on your eyes and can view in a bright sunny day outside.

magi44ken

This looks way better than eink display. How many OS update does it get? Are you guys working on a color too?

Maxx

magi44ken I don't know for sure, but it seems that the color gimmicks, i.e. Temporal Dithering and of course PWM are the things that irritate the eyes.

There seems to be zero effort on producing a flicker free display, but yet there are many who complain about dry eyes. We should get people to realize that it is not a problem of lubrication in the eyes, it is a problem of flickering light. It is also not a blue light problem. While there is some evidence that blue light in large quantities is not good for the eyes long term, it is not the source of acute eye strain. This can be easily tested by anyone, using a total blue blocker glasses or just very dark sunglasses. If it was blue light, then the glasses would solve our problem, but it does not.

I'm afraid these companies are just out to prey on people like us, trying to capitalize on the blue light problem.

But yeah, I'm open to trying this device, too, but seeing is believing.

Voyager39

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