Hi all,

Thank you so much for all the suggestions! I will answer to all of them here.

  • First thing to say is that I agree there is some testing to do. The main issue is that when the symptoms get triggered, I can't escape to have them for the rest of the day even if I leave the office, so that makes it tricky or at least means that testing will need to happen on a longer timescale (with a lot of discomfort along the way).
  • The chair is different in the new office so I will try to use my old one if possible.
  • There are no other lights or power strips for now in that office.
  • The side of the window is an interesting idea. At home, I have a similar setup where I work but the window is on the right side, with noise (interstate) coming from that side as well. Sunlight is rarely direct because of the balcony, and my walls are painted beige and orange. At work, there is also noise (construction) from the side of the window (left). Trying my office mate desk that point the other way should be relatively easy.
  • In the new office, opening the blinds make this worse. The window doesn't open much, but that's not too different from my old office.
  • Adding a light on the other side of the office is an interesting idea as well.
  • I don't get dry eye symptoms and don't have any known pollen allergies. I have a fair share of food intolerances, but that's under control for the most part, and hasn't changed recently.
  • Stress could play a role, but I don't think it is the culprit here, as the discomfort happened right away when moving into the new office.
  • Laptop's windows updates need to happen because of IT, but this has not bothered me in the last several years on this specific laptop.
  • Finally, I am not entirely sure it is laptop/screen related. I wonder if it could simply be the office itself (so something to do with the lighting/reflections off the walls), so I need to go do some work in there that doesn't require a screen. But again, it will be at most one test a day as symptoms persist for many hours after they get triggered (and I also need to be able to do some work!!).

Thanks again, all. I will keep you posted!

    async we are here open and polite to everybody. I don't get your joke, I just described what I'm experiencing in addition besides PWM/flicker issue

      fgrise

      Have you tested air quality and chemicals like VOCs? I've experienced summertime sunlight slowly causing poor quality materials to emit toxic smells in a high rise office building (where you are solely dependent on AC for ventilation) causing myself and a few other employees dizziness and other symptoms while working at our monitors. The company did eventually send in professional testing crew and confirmed some VOC or related type emissions.

        madmozg Jeez. The reason you don't get the joke is because there is no joke. It was a question about if you referenced blocking the light or air there, and the experiments I would have done to bring clarity to why you see that effect.

          async blocking that light source helps immediately, what else do you want to hear?

          madmozg

          Relax, async was trying to help you explore and understand what triggers your symptoms. He was not rude.

          photon78s Thanks for the idea! I have thought about it, but would need to ask my hierarchy about doing some testing. What is interesting to note is that this office is on the 5th floor with poor A/C ventilation and my previous office is on the ground floor. But of course, it would probably have to be more than just me to be able to get some testing going. My office mate doesn't seem affected by it …

            fgrise Update 1:

            • Today I went to the office (worked from home yesterday with no issues), and I stood there and looked at the window with the blinds opened. I feel that there was already some discomfort from doing that, but it is difficult to describe. It almost feels as if the sunlight was very strong, while not having direct sunlight coming through the window. The narrowness of the window (and height up to the ceiling) might amplify this effect (like being in a cave lit up by a small opening), although I have the same window in my old office without feeling any of this. What is clear though is that there is a lot of shadows and zones of varying luminosity on the walls since they are white. Unclear if this could be relevant.
            • I sat at my officemate's desk to see if having the window facing the other direction would make a difference, even with no laptop opened. After a few minutes, I started having a feeling above my eyebrows and while I left after 20 minutes, I now have a mild headache.

            madmozg Yup literally the exact same for me. Similar with fan noise coming from left instead of right as well, although light is much worse. I tried to 'get used to' both of them once as I was unsure if it was just a psychological thing and it only made it worse lol

            At that point back in 2023 a doctor recommended that I definitely should just ensure things are on my right as much as possible (instead of trying to balance them etc). Weirdly enough sticking to right side has actually made me slightly less sensitive to left side over time! We both agree now that it's part of a much deeper processing issue and not a "psychological thing that would be fixed by 'more' exposure" at least in my case

            fgrise Is there any reason you need to move office or could you just move back to your old office permanently?

            Is the paint on the white walls gloss or matte? This could cause a problem if you're affected by glare.

            Also is there a chance the office could be somewhat partly soundproof. I had this issue with a classroom in college years ago. The walls were a very bright white and I felt dizzy and weird in the room. I found it hard to focus my eyes and even hard to hear what people were saying. I came to the conclusion that the room was soundproofed. The room did have 2 large skylights letting in lots of natural light making the already very white walls seem even brighter. So maybe this had something to do with it too.

              Larkenn

              Sorry off topic, I have read that certain rooms have a comfortable RT or reverberation time in audio circles and the room should not be a "dead room":

              https://commercial-acoustics.com/reverberation-time-graphic/

              https://www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm

              This makes for a subjectively quite dead room, which is fine if the room is dedicated solely to Home Theater and surround sound, but is in my opinion a very overstuffed environment for normal living.

              photon78s Have you tested air quality and chemicals like VOCs?

              Speaking of VOCs and other emissions, I have a personal anecdote I have been wanting to share regarding environmental factors. The beginning of my story is here, but in summary a few years ago right before my eye strain started, we renovated our house which included some new electrical wiring (new receptacles and some low-voltage equipment) and painted the entire interior. Soon after, as soon as I would enter my desk/work area I would experience an odd feeling which I would describe as a warmth or buzzing sensation in the back of my head with an accompanying brain fog. At first I thought it was literal warm air from my equipment, but after experimenting with disabling various equipment, I could not identify the cause (the sensation seemed to persist after the equipment was shut down).

              I was away from my home environment for a few weeks recently for travel, and upon returning I could feel the sensation more distinctly. There was a very specific cross-over point of about six feet from the wall (for me), and at that point I had my wife try to feel it as well and she felt a similar sensation at about four feet from the wall. While subjective tests were difficult, we tentatively concluded that the sensation was reduced when equipment was unplugged and reduced further (possibly entirely) when power was shut off at the breaker.

              So, I'm not sure if I have a newfound EMF or RF sensitivity, or if the newly-painted walls with warm equipment next to them causing VOC emissions were a factor. Interestingly though, every device that has "gone bad" for me went bad after being used in this location. This includes the 2015 15" Retina MacBook Pro, which I had used at work for several years, and was even my "good" comparison display when testing out new monitors. Then, after I bought a few of these MacBooks and used them at home in this area, all of them (including the one at work that I had used for years) became uncomfortable.

                macsforme VOCs are fairly easy to measure with an Airthings device. High frequency sound from wiring can be measured with some iPhone apps, at least to a certain point. If it is high frquency that is pretty easy to block with some materials for testing, or just wearing headphones.

                macsforme

                Some of this sounds like dirty electricity or other kinds of EMF as well. Their may be the option of hiring a so-called "building biologist" but I have no idea the costs or even if they are available where you are. Their are a bunch of options to test EMF, RF and similar with handheld devices as well since you mentioned a specific cross-over point indicates to me perhaps a field that reaches your sensitivity threshold at the location and distance to the source.

                https://safelivingtechnologies.com/building-biology/

                I think in 2012, I went away on vacation and came back and found out they replaced the analog meter with a smart meter in our neighborhood. Felt nauseous for a few days but the symptoms eventually went away.

                macsforme

                One problem with the whole emf madness is even if you do not feel anything right now, this does not discount long term effects such as changes from 20 years of exposure leading to more immediately felt sensitivity down the road.

                And as other posts have mentioned, the more mundane electrical issues from bad wiring and dirty electricity can also affect the power electronics of the computer causing it to flicker and in turn adding to your symptoms. This to me may be a factor contributing to your observations of devices going bad after being used in that specific location.

                A similar power electronics effect might have happened to my once good M2 MBP touchbar causing it to exhibit significantly more pixel flicker considering their were to my knowledge no relevant software changes prior to it going bad.

                  photon78s Great info and sounds spot-on. I have long suspected there is a cumulative effect, or to put it another way there may be an overall “load” that your body can tolerate, but after exceeding it we begin to develop symptoms (this is in general, not accounting for every single individual’s condition). This theory would provide for the possibility of healing, if the overall load can be reduced below the individual’s tolerance threshold.

                  I found a local EMF specialist who supposedly has high-end measurement equipment, who will do a comprehensive home evaluation (including client education and further referrals) for about $600. This is fairly steep, but we are considering doing it at some point.

                  photon78s A similar power electronics effect might have happened to my once good M2 MBP touchbar causing it to exhibit significantly more pixel flicker considering their were to my knowledge no relevant software changes prior to it going bad.

                  To clarify, do you believe the laptop may have been permanently affected by these electrical problems, such that the strain-inducing behavior is there to stay? Or are you suggesting that your body/brain developed a negative association with the device, but the shift on the hardware itself is temporary depending on the power connection?

                    macsforme To clarify, do you believe the laptop may have been permanently affected by these electrical problems, such that the strain-inducing behavior is there to stay? Or are you suggesting that your body/brain developed a negative association with the device, but the shift on the hardware itself is temporary depending on the power connection?

                    I think both can be reasons. I know the mbp changed permanently verified through pixel flicker videos because I had recorded it showing almost no pixel flicker prior to the "change". Power of suggestion and nocebo effect is powerful but in my case the videos show the change and edit: the laptop remained that way on battery power and with no peripherals attached so it is not solely due to negative association. It does not surprise me that complex electronics are super sensitive.

                    Do let us know what the EMF specialist says if you go ahead with the evaluation. I sometimes check EMF stuff here:

                    https://microwavenews.com/

                      photon78s When it comes to macbooks, one factor is - apple removed grounding plug as standard, so you have to buy plug extension in order to have grounding. If it is not grounded, then laptop aluminum body during contact with your arms will cause tingling electrical feel. And if you use battery only during a contact as a possible solution, then there was a report that EMF reader picked up exponentially more EMF exposure whilst using battery. So generally grounding when it is possible is a positive thing, since you do not want electric current to flow through your body.

                      Dirty electricity the most important factor where you are stationary for long time, usually bedroom, and workplace. And to my understanding, even if EMF is lower frequency, it probably has high energy.

                      And of course WIFI which is set at 30dB maximum as standard now, without even vendors allowing to change it down. I am running my devices at home at 1dB transmit power, and in public spaces 1dB to 3dB. Never had issues, but if you know that dB is exponential measure, this is very significant reduction. Long term effects of staring at a screen very close to transmitter are well documented, from deniers of any effects and those who claim it has clear long term consequences. Just like it was with cigarettes long time ago. So if you do not want to gamble, precautions can be taken, by knowing simple radio propagation rule - inverse square law. Generally with every meter from non directional transmitter which all consumer electronics are, EMF reduces exponentially. My personal sensitivity and test are unquestionable and not placebo. One of the scenarios where I really feel sick just by using my phone for 30 seconds, is - being in a location far away from cell tower, and in smallish closed room, e.g. basement. In this scenario since cell tower is far away, your phone will transmit maximum in order to reach cell tower, and signal will bounce many times from the walls, creating not very nice place for your health. The same goes with travelling in a car with a cell phone, especially using data a lot. But luckily there are now solutions such as EMF blocking clothing, but this is whole new subject.

                        Donux

                        Agree. I have been following this topic since 2007, way before I noticed anything wrong with computer screens etc. I used to turn down the transmitter power on the wifi router before now going back to all wired ethernet. I have heard about the non-linearities regarding effects independent of power level and inverse square law. Don't remember the source off the top of my head. Their is shielding of many types and materials but again probably the wrong place to go more in depth on this.

                        dev