I ended up with the glossy version of the Apple Pro Display XDR without the grainy nano texture. The clarity without any screen covering is insanely good with the high DPI, true 10bit and really high SDR brightness. I've mostly adapted again to the MBP M1 Max and the and iPhone 14 Pro Max now, and this display is definitely waaay better than those. I'll see if it stays this nice, but so far so good.

I decided to not research any eye strain while using this screen, not take any measurements, and not play around with any settings unless strictly needed, as I really want it to work and there obviously is some psychological component to all this as well. Currently running stock settings / profile with just Stillcolor.

There are very few tests of this display anywhere, and few places to actually see it in action. Few or no eye strain reports as well. For those that have the option and can handle the financials I'll advice taking a look at it. The second hand price isn't too bad. In my opinion it is nothing like the Studio Display that just felt like a Macbook.

    async wow great choice! Keep us updated! Very interesting.

      async In my opinion it is nothing like the Studio Display that just felt like a Macbook.

      So you've tried the Studio Display and the XDR is better?

      I decided to not research any eye strain while using this screen, not take any measurements, and not play around with any settings unless strictly needed, as I really want it to work and there obviously is some psychological component to all this as well. Currently running stock settings / profile with just Stillcolor.

      Understood, but I'd be interested in some measurements of the XDR at some point, considering professional reviewers haven't exactly gotten their grubby hands on it. 😆

          JTL Understandably. Used it extensively and have experienced zero eye strain. Do note that my issues is currently much milder than many here, and things have taken a step in the right direction lately. Still, it's exceptional to work at I would advice others to give it a try.

          I mostly stayed away from my Macbook while I adapt and are running both at the native resolution with the same PPI, as I have a feeling that constantly seeing the same interface elements at different sizes can mess up accomodation. ChatGPT seemed to agree that there are higher order processes in the visual pathways that use matched patterns to assist accomodation, and that mixing PPI in theory can cause focus issues. Might be a relevant track for others to look into as well. @DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

          The little I used the Macbook now the screen is garbage compared to the Pro display, but doesn't really strain as easily.

              async

              How are the miniLEDs in the Pro Display XDR? I hope it works for you long term as well!

                  photon78s the SDR goes really bright compared to the Macbook. Didn't really try the XDR mode thru Lunar or BetterDisplay. I have no need for any more brightness than what is available with SDR. Can't say the same for the Macbook, where I frequently use extended brightness in the daytime.

                  It has pretty few dimming zones compared to newer mini leds. I think that can be beneficial, and unlike the Macbook I don't feel like I've staring at a led at all. This hellish glowing text that happens on the Macbook is also pretty much absent for me.

                  Also I don't feel annoyed by the 60 hz as it feels rather smooth. On the Macbook however it feels like everything is stuttering if I limit it to 60.

                  There is a technical white paper that has a lot of details on the backlight. https://www.apple.com/pro-display-xdr/pdf/Pro_Display_White_Paper_Feb_2020.pdf

                  Also the combo of glossy display and high dpi at true retina means that everything is sharp at all times, which at least feels like it gets rid of a lot of strain. My Mateview 28 in comparison looks like it has constant flickering rainbow sand on top of the display due to the anti-reflective coating with a grainy texture.

                    async as I have a feeling that constantly seeing the same interface elements at different sizes can mess up accomodation

                    this is mostly true, on most screens I deal with this issue, it can also affect how you focus on real-life objects after using the screen too

                    BUT… in my experience, it seems to be VERY connected to the issue with the false 3D effect which frusturatingly affects so many screens (even as far back as the 2000s, I still feel that effect + see super obvious "forced oversharpening" white halos on a NEC CCFL TN from 2005 connected to a "safe" PC outputting 16bpp…)

                    the reason why I know this is that on my single truly "safe" screen, LG LP133WD2-SLB1 on IdeaPad Yoga 13, I can set the UI zoom level to any size I want, even super huge, and the distance I focus remains essentially the same. the UI elements focus just as easily.

                    for example, i can set this page to max zoom, and it's still easy to jump between the massive web page text and regular-sized taskbar without strain.

                    however, this laptop is the ONLY backlit screen that I can do this on.

                    the only other screens that work like this for me are e-ink — but this laptop panel is a WLED-backlit IPS (that even has some mild PWM and pixel inversion!) yet somehow feels entirely different from ANY other IPS/TN/VA/OLED I've used — including a few other LG IPS I've tried

                    on every other backlit screen so far, even a few that I deem "usable" or "mostly flat", the moment I increase the size or a large icon appears… I can feel pressure on the eyes changing and a feeling of "increasing closeness" or having to "learn to focus differently" on different-sized elements, like you are saying. but not on the Yoga 13

                    TLDR: yep this 100% affects lots of screens, but I have "living evidence" that it's actually possible for at least one backlit screen to not have this issue.

                    i wish i knew why. my only theory is that I see very little "post-processing / colors bleeding into nearby pixels / additional edge enhancement" compared to what I notice in others

                      18 days later

                      async

                      Tested quite a bit. There is massive flicker on grays. Even with adaptive sync turned off, and at all refresh rates, and all color modes. Variable refresh rate is not selected in Mac either. Not sure if it affects HDMI.

                      Somehow the image seems much more pleasant with DP 1.2 instead of DP 1.4 or DP 1.4(DSC). Tried all with the same color profile, as 60 hz. No idea tbh. Didn't find a quick way to check if Mac uses something else to process the signal for the old standard.

                      Sorry for the tag, but I've since then come across a few reviews of OLED panels using the SVM metric (devised by Philips) for evaluating temporal light modulation behavior.

                      80 nits is quite a substantial drop.
                      Not only that:

                      X-axis is grayscale (RGB values)
                      Y-Axis is SVM values (SVM =1 is modulation that 50% of people can perceive)

                      https://www.visosystems.com/media/TLA%20Tutorial%20EU.pdf

                      I'd argue that even the SVM<0.4 value that the EU proposes are not low enough for most.

                      This has definitely something to do with the gamma curve and black crush of OLEDs as a whole, would be interesting to tinker for people trying to use OLED smartphones.

                      For example:

                      • Using light mode on phone (funny how it's the opposite of what everyone recommends for OLEDs)
                        [I've personally found this to somewhat alleviate my issue on my AMOLED phone, not fix it entirely however as you're not eliminating the brightness drop + you're forced to use max brightness to avoid PWM]
                      • Forcing lower contrast (so the font isnt too dark when on light background),
                      • Using black equalizer on desktop displays (which support it) to brighten darker shades of gray

                          qb74 I've measured SVM on some OLED phones. Vivo x100 pro is 0.03 and it was brutal for me

                              jordan You wouldn't happen to know the formula for calculating the SVM value?

                                  jordan
                                  Yeah I don't place much hope in SVM being a good metric.
                                  Context matters, have you used the phone with the screen showcasing darker shades of gray (RGB: 55, 55, 55) or in light mode (230-255 RGB values)?
                                  Depending on the scenario, darker grays can exacerbate eyestrain issues.

                                      qb74 well I firstly tried in light mode since that's default and it was enough for me not to be able to continue messing with it. I even tried the full pwm mode which is 2160Hz at all brightness levels. I sold it to my friend and it was also not good for him either. It was a global model and he also owns 1 other global model and Chinese model of that x100 pro BUT the only one comfortable is the Chinese version which runs originos and not funtouchos. Super weird.

                                      Regarding dark mode oddly I find dark mode to be most comfortable on my xiaomi 13T with a screen dimmer app further dimming since I use 55% brightness which is 2880hz / 0.08SVM

                                        Scaling as in windows display size ? I use to use 150 or 200% in the past because everything was small on a high res screen

                                        moonpie

                                        I'm not talking about display scaling.

                                        I'm just talking about web browser text size, or even something like "zooming into an image file that's streamed from a different computer through a VNC viewer" (where in that case, the problematic computer doesn't know the "exact" zoom % value at all, but whatever post-processing algorithm is used before its display output still recognizes a "blurred edge" or something and applies some weird oversharpening effect to it)

                                          6 days later

                                          madmozg It's perfect. I have yet to leave the screen from strain at any point since I got it. That doesn't mean I never get mild upticks in migraine like symptoms or slight glow on high contrast text, but never to an extent where it interferes with wanting to sit there or get work done.

                                          I still have a hard cut where I don't ever research eye strain or similar stuff while using it, or change any settings. As there is no doubt a psychological component to a lot of this, as well as learning to ignore things I do think that helps as well. I switched the bulbs around my workstation to old incandescent bulbs and put in a heated foot massager. Everything to create a space where there is as little discomfort and stress as possible. Rewiring neurons takes time, and finding a way to spend time with a screen while keeping dopamine high and cortisol low does for me seem like a reasonable target.

                                          I still get insanely tired if I have some excessively flickering led in my peripheral vision, and I get way more symptoms if my neck locks up, eats something that bloat my gut, or consumes B6. Nitrites, perfume and dehydration are also noticeable. Also I almost never use my miniled Macbook, as the screen is utter garbage compared to the XDR. However when I do I keep the exact same PPI, as I think frequent readaption could be an issue. Also my contact lens adjustment seems to help.

                                          Super happy that this one works, and for now it seems like everything is moving in a positive direction. I'm starting to get a better feel of how everything fits together. For many here I do think it is critical to get both the internal (health/body) and external (screen/lights) factors that contributes to hyperexcitability down below a threshold where it is possible to actually get used to screens again, and to forget about them ever causing issues.

                                              7 days later

                                              async I totally agree with your feedback, thanks for sharing!

                                                async

                                                Now I'm curious if it is possible to get windows or linux machine working safely with the Pro Display?

                                                  dev