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  • who can use Linux but not windows? Share your Linux setup

WhisperingWind gotcha okay!

WhisperingWind
I'm shocked the mbp is fine. Do you use stillcolor app? The frc doesn't bother you on that monitor but GPU dithering does?

Sounds good! Would love to know if it's possible. I connected my a770 to my z390 strix itx board but it had no output during OS setup so I connected to the igpu on the 8700 i7 which felt uncomfortable when connected to my eink monitor. I tried win11 setup and crunchbang++ and both felt off during setups. I think I am going to go back to my 7950x / msi b650 unify itx which felt comfortable on its Raphael amd igpu. How would I force 8bit with the AMD igpu in Linux? Or would that xrandr command you told me earlier also work on this? Might even try the arc on this board too.

I think the motherboard/bios strain is definitely a thing because x670e on the same 7950x igpu felt AWFUL when the b650 unify itx / 7950x is fine. That was in the BIOS where I noticed the substantial difference in comfort. Also on the b650 unify board is felt comfortable booted into HiveOS distro when I was using it to mine crypto. I believe it uses open box / x11?

I'm thinking this z390 board also is just no good. I tried manually flashing a OLD bios but it wouldn't boot, assuming it lacked microcode for the 8700. Earliest is 2019 that worked, maybe if I had a compatible CPU for the 2018ver it maybe would be better ? Dunno. I used the cha341a in pic to force bios downgrade

        WhisperingWind also if 1507/1511 doesn't work I think the next good one would be 1809 win10. I know 20h2 is the minimum for arc driver but hopefully uhd driver install could allow older os 😃

          jordan I use Intel integrated graphics. Most important for me is being well slept. If I am tired any screen will irritate my eyes. By the way, Lubuntu is supposed to be one of the best ones for eye comfort. Worth trying.

              K-Moss is there a specific version of lubuntu that's best?

              I noticed waiting a few hours before using screens after waking helps. I find using them shortly after waking could cause more issues. (My phone)

                  jordan

                  I read in a few places here that LUbuntu 18.04 is best for eye strain.

                  Another thing that could be done, is to disable the gpu and use software rendering.

                  This may be done by using the vesa driver, which uses software rendering, and bypasses most of the gpu(but not sure if all of it).

                  I also wonder if changing configuration files can be done on a live usb, and that way, its possible to try similar configuration changes on different distros, fast.

                      jordan

                      I'm shocked the mbp is fine. Do you use stillcolor app? The frc doesn't bother you on that monitor but GPU dithering does?

                      I use Stillcolor with my MBP M1 because, without it, I can't work for extended periods. In my case, the macOS interface has subdued colors and is rendered without harsh transitions and strong contrast. My hypothesis is that this makes the FRC on the monitor less active. However, when switching to Windows and Linux, I notice an increase in sharpness and contrast, and the image becomes more vibrant, which leads to more "active" FRC operation. I immediately notice this as eye strain.

                      How would I force 8bit with the AMD igpu in Linux?

                      I’m not sure off the top of my head, but you can run the command xrandr --verbose. This will print the available variables for modification in the terminal.

                      Or would that xrandr command you told me earlier also work on this?

                      Xrandr can work with any video driver. It receives a list of properties from the driver and simply sends the property along with its value to the driver when setting it.

                      I'm thinking this z390 board also is just no good

                      My motherboard is based on the Z390 chipset, and when I tried switching from A770 to UHD 630 in Windows 11, I noticed that it became less comfortable for my eyes.

                      It turns out that the minimum 8-bit limitation for HDMI on my Intel UHD Xe (12th gen CPU) is not a hardware issue

                      I have experimented with i9-9900K (UHD 630). I tried to enable 6-bit on Windows with this iGPU. However, Ditherig returned 0 as the pipeline state register value (the same situation occurred on Linux), which is strange. I attempted to write data to the register, but UHD 630 did not respond.

                          WhisperingWind

                          Gotcha I see. I wonder if hackintosh would feel on a PC with decent hardware. I originally thought macos was bad it's self.

                          Oh alright I didn't know that. I'll have to try that soon. Thanks. I was running hiveos on the 7950x igpu and it felt ok I wonder what normal distro would be on par with that in terms of windows manager, compositor, etc

                          autobot

                          Oh yeah that's the version I remember hearing about too. I wonder if any newer ones are also okay. I wasn't aware of that driver and running it as software rendering. That sounds like it could help? Live USB also would be very useful to check

                          .

                                I also wonder if changing configuration files can be done on a live usb, and that way, its possible to try similar configuration changes on different distros, fast.

                                I looked into how the video stack works in the latest version of Ubuntu Desktop X11. It turns out that in the source code of the Mutter/Clutter rendering engine, there are no external settings for controlling dithering - it is enabled by default. In older versions of Mesa OpenGL, there used to be an environment variable called MESA_NO_DITHER, but in modern versions, it has been removed because the relevant code was taken out. When the data reaches the driver level, it's the drivers that decide whether to enable or disable dithering, regardless of what the lower layers request. Although theoretically possible to replace some components, I didn't find a straightforward way to change dithering settings through default configuration files.

                                I read in a few places here that LUbuntu 18.04 is best for eye strain.

                                Lubuntu does not use Mutter/Clutter. It definitely needs to be tried.

                                  jordan

                                  A Hackintosh built on my Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master with i9-9900K has some issues (common with many Z390 and 9th gen CPUs setups). There is a challenge in configuring the graphics because the best profile for UHD 630 is the Mac Mini, but there is no Mac Mini based on 9th generation processors. By default, the integrated GPU doesn't work, and a discrete AMD graphics card is needed. I used the RX6600, but this setup has significant dithering issues and is not functional. I managed to get UHD 630 (i9-9900K) working (which is quite an adventure and can take at least half a day), it's not comfortable for the eyes. The bootloader option 'enableDither=0', which is supposed to disable dithering on the iGPU, doesn't work with that setup.

                                  Therefore, for a comfortable experience, I would recommend using Apple Silicon M1. It's better to first find someone you know and try working on M1. The Mac Mini 2018 based on the i7-8700 is very noisy; the only option is the one based on the i5-8400, but that's not as powerful a machine. However, since you have i7-8700 like in the Mac Mini 2018, you might want to give it a try with Hackintosh and see if it works out.

                                      WhisperingWind these guys(which i got to the through jordan's comments) are academic researchers in the field of vision. So they built a library to do vision experiments.

                                      A part of this library is to verify What goes to the screen: http://psychtoolbox.org/docs/BitsPlusIdentityClutTest

                                      They even fixed a bug in ubuntu, related to dithering: https://psychtoolbox.discourse.group/t/dithering-with-ubuntu-22-04-md-radeon-pro-wx-3200-viewpixx/4517

                                          autobot

                                          It seems they use displays that can show 10 or 12 bits. This is the maximum for some cards and doesn't allow them to dither. They broke something in the Linux kernel for the 10/12-bit modes for some AMD cards, which seems to have caused dithering. Then they fixed it. This fix has been in the kernel for about two years.

                                          I have come across comments in the amdgpu kernel module code stating that for some cards, dithering should not be enabled at 12 bits. For older cards, I think this value could be 10 bits.

                                            WhisperingWind oh interesting so turning it off on driver side at least will prevent os dithering. Lubuntu does sound promising. I did try HiveOS when I use to mine crypto and the desktop booting felt comfortable when I tried it on a amd igpu. I think lubuntu is similar with using open box/x11. I think lubuntu has the compositor disabled default right ? Assuming that would be better ? WhisperingWind Ahh okay. Tbh it might be more trouble than it's worth. I probably would just find a 2018 Mac mini in that case but I think for now I'll try the hardware I currently got.

                                            autobot

                                            I emailed the vpixx/psychtool box company and they told me they personally use the Rx 6600 with ubuntu but they said it requires this tool: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/tomstdenis/umr to disable dithering.

                                            They also gave me a method on example code for checking dithering with a frame grabber but videodiff I think already exists for that on GitHub.

                                                  WhisperingWind Visible changes only occurred after modifying the i915 code

                                                  It'd be awesome if you could share what you changed (and how you compiled it).

                                                      ryans

                                                      I made a spontaneous large number of edits in the i915 module and it seems I forced a smaller number of bits per channel, which resulted in improvements on my monitor with FRC. Later, after studying the i915 code more carefully, I realized that dithering for Intel iGPU is disabled by default in the i915 (except for 6 bits in certain modes). I additionally removed these 6-bit checks from the i915 code so that dithering would not be enabled. I will check if there is dithering at 6 bits on the vanilla kernel, then I can post the fix along with the build guide. But it is only for intel igpu and 6 bit mode.

                                                        Recently installed Zorin OS 15 lite:

                                                        Display: ASUS VA249HE (24 inch)
                                                        Panel: VA 8-bit or 6-bit, conflicting data on the web
                                                        Resolution: 1920x1080
                                                        Brightness: 100% - i sit in a sunlit room
                                                        Refresh rate: 77hz
                                                        Graphics Card: Intel N95 that includes: Intel Corporation Device 46d2
                                                        Cable: HDMI
                                                        OS: Zorin OS 15 Lite (based on ubuntu 18.04 + XFCE). Disabled compositing. Disabled font aliasing in the OS. Using Firefox - disabled hardware acceleration.
                                                        Eyestrain: Eyestrain free

                                                          dev