• AbstractHardwareOS

  • Macbook Air 15'' M3 IPS display bugs - Brightness F1-F2 flickering; Gradients

I wrote to Apple's support. When 15.0 15.1 15.1.1 were released. But didn't get any result.
Hope power of Ledstrain community will help Apple to fix those bugs.
Use official feedback website to send to Apple those bugs and ask to fix them…

Those 2 issues I've tested on various people. All of them notice those bugs. So I would say it affects not 1.5%- 2% of the customer, but the majority 90-100%. You can send whole this text to Apple with the links.

https://feedbackassistant.apple.com/

Thank you

**
Link to the main thread:

https://ledstrain.org/d/2686-i-disabled-dithering-on-apple-silicon-introducing-stillcolor-macos-m1m2m3/1351

  • JTL replied to this.

    vladnft Hope power of Ledstrain community will help Apple to fix those bugs.
    Use official feedback website to send to Apple those bugs and ask to fix them…

    Not to say like a downer, but without empirical evidence of the cause and effect of certain issues people at "big tech companies" are largely going to express disinterest and platitudes and unless they experience it themselves or are REALLY bored, it's not going to make any solutions come faster. In fact reports without a clear cause and effect relationship may indefinitely stall progress towards internal research or solutions.

      I have done lots of testing on tons of devices and actually have had conversations about PWM, dithering, FRC, flicker, Laptop screen brightness, font issues, going from millions of colors to billions of colors.

      It seems like the biggest change started with 10.15 to Version 11 with the noticeable font changes as well as a lot of other internal things.

      One example of testing is on the MB Air M2/M3 15in and MB Air M1/M2 13in arch linux runs fine with no dithering or eye strain.

      They are aware of the issues but it's only affecting roughly 1.5%- 2% of the customer base so not really large enough to do much. It's all about making everything pop colors wise and its cheaper to use software for those 98% of the people it does not bother. Sequoia is a little better with the font adjuster built in on a 8bit LCD but still not good enough.

      It is frustrating but with the correct computer Windows 10/11 and Linux can be made to work for some of the people. Look for a old fashion IPS, Intel graphics, matte screen, lower nits, SRGB, turn off dynamic lighting, tweak motion settings, etc. Linux takes a little bit of tweaking but you can generally do more in linux.

      I think the Mac fans that have issues that have been holding onto the 2014/mid2015 Macbook Pros are almost to decision time to leave as the M2/M3 15in Air had hope but is not working for lots.

        Those 2 issues I've tested on various people. All of them notice those bugs. So I would say it affects not 1.5%- 2% of the customer, but the majority 90-100%.

        craig24 PWM, dithering, FRC, flicker, Laptop screen brightness, font issues, going from millions of colors to billions of colors.

        I was searching through all of these topics you've mentioned. Those 2 issues I described look like bugs. Not as an advanced tech solution that Apple makes. So I hope we will explain this to Apple in Feedback.

        I am sure they will fix it in near future. Especially if they see how people react. Everyone can copy and paste my description and links to video explainers of those bugs to send it using official bug report page:
        https://feedbackassistant.apple.com/

          craig24 I did not try linux, but will have a go. So far impression was - people say there is no eye strain, but later take it back and say there is eye strain on Asahi. This is similar to various forms of switching that takes place in windows 10 ecosystem. Perhaps irritation is so subtle, that when you switch, eyes kind of readjust for some time, before get triggered by the same recurring stimuli, in slighty different UI context.

              vladnft Usuallly smooth blightness control is a red flag for use of PWM. When brightness control is in big steps, then it does not use PWM. However, I am not sure what this case you have highlighted might reveal underlying issue. Are you trying to say google chrome itself or video accelaration element of it due to video rendering somehow changes behaviour of a system? And do you have eye strain with this machine at all or not? Is there a state where you can say - I have zero eye strain? Because usually people are very clinical with M 15"

                  Donux
                  Brightness F1-F2 changes smoothly:
                  I. if Autobrightness is OFF - ONLY WHEN ANY video player is active: Chrome-Youtube, QuickTime Player, etc…
                  II. if Autobrightness is ON - brightness changes smoothly ALWAYS, even player is active or not.

                  So if Autobrightness is OFF, then flickery effect appears when video player NOT active.

                  My request to Apple: when Autobrightness is OFF - I prefer to have smooth brightness changing F1-F2 ALWAYS, even if video player is NOT active (Chrome-Youtube, QuickTime Player, etc…)

                    Donux
                    IPS displays don't have PWM (pulse-width modulation). This F1-F2 brightness flickering is another type of flickering, not PWM. Also instability/interference in plain colours it is some other bug.

                    Compare the following reviews about PWM:

                    Macbook pro 14''

                    The Apple MacBook Pro 14 (M3, Late 2023) features a backlight with pulsations. While the frequency of these pulsations is high, the filling coefficient is low. A high frequency generally means less strain on your eyes since it’s less noticeable. However, the low filling coefficient results in flickering due to super short bursts of extremely high brightness levels (above 4000 cd/m2).
                    https://laptopmedia.com/review/apple-macbook-pro-14-inch-m3-review-premium-pricey-laptop-with-exceptional-build-quality-and-long-battery-life/p3/

                    Macbook pro 16''

                    Apple MacBook Pro 16 (M3 Pro) display has pulsations. Their frequency is high, but the filling coefficient is very low.
                    https://laptopmedia.com/ca/review/apple-macbook-pro-16-m3-pro-max-review-stunning-display-meets-excellent-build-quality-and-silent-cooling/

                    "Apple MacBook Air (15″, M3)

                    display doesn’t flicker at any brightness level. This makes the screen pretty comfortable for long periods of use."

                    https://laptopmedia.com/review/apple-macbook-air-15-m3-review-big-screen-power-in-a-thin-and-light-package/

                    ==
                    What is PWM, Why is it Important, and Why Did We Add This Test to Our Reviews?

                    Below are the waveforms of 4 displays:

                    1️⃣ The first one doesn’t emit pulse-width modulation, which provides the option to work for extended periods of time.
                    2️⃣ The second is a classic PWM. Its aggressive pulsations at a low frequency put extra pressure on the eyes and brain.
                    3️⃣ The third also emits PWM, but it has an extremely high frequency, which is considered to be less harmful.
                    4️⃣ The fourth one doesn’t flicker unless the brightness is <25%, so it is eye-friendly in practically every normal usage mode.

                    https://laptopmedia.com/highlights/what-is-pwm-why-is-it-important-and-why-did-we-add-this-test-to-our-reviews/

                      Donux I did not try linux, but will have a go. So far impression was - people say there is no eye strain, but later take it back and say there is eye strain on Asahi.

                      This was my experience, except I determined quickly that Asahi Linux was still uncomfortable on the M2 Pro TB screen. I think the main problem for me is the KSF phosphor, with the harsh red spike you can see with a spectrometer (see the QDOT MBP topic). The weird macOS graphical effects are likely a secondary problem for me.

                        You're dealing with two separate things.

                        Regarding the first, I don't think this is a bug. This is by design.

                        When auto brightness is on, auto gamma is also on. (Auto gamma has been discussed elsewhere on this forum, including the underlying parameter that controls it.) There appears to be slower hysteresis when video is playing, which also seems by design, to avoid quick changes in gamma while people are watching movies.

                        I'm not convinced that auto gamma is ever useful, personally, and it's probably never desirable for working with photographs, but the PhD (I forget his name) who advises Apple on this has some credible arguments on why it should be this way.

                        Regarding the second, the MBA 15 uses a form of FRC on darks and midtowns to improve banding of dark regions. This is distinct from the FRC that Stillcolor turns off. There doesn't seem to be any way to turn this off.

                          DannyD2

                          If some tray App will forcefully simulate a video player that is turned ON in each workspace, then this algorithm (auto gamma). This will solve the problem with F1-F2 flickering if Autobrightness OFF.

                              vladnft There is an app that's available that continuously plays a 120fps one-pixel-wide video in the menu bar, for people who want to force their MB Pro screens to 120hz mode. You could try that. I don't think it will turn off auto-gamma though; it'll probably just slow the hysteresis. (I personally recommend just disabling auto brightness, but you might like the effect… what it does is push the display to gamma 2.4 from the default 2.2 in dark rooms.)

                                  DannyD2 Maybe this could explain why some people including me feel way better with Generic RGB color profile, which is wider gamut than sRGB, but has much darker tones than sRGB this way minimizing dark tones FRC effect.

                                    If so many people (current users of Macbook Air M3 IPS) feel uncomfortable with the default software / driver display settings, our goal is to push Apple to add into Settings some option to manage those things. If one-of-a-kind PhD wants to use it - he can turn it ON. But the majority of users prefer to turn it OFF…
                                    Add to Display Settings:
                                    - On/Off instability in plain colours (especially black text on a white or light background), simple shaders all colours shaded evenly.
                                    - On/Off F1-F2 flickering (auto gamma)

                                    - On/Off Gradients not smooth - gradient algo to make Lagom test smooth

                                    It will satisfy majority of the users. The only way is flexibility in settings to make display comfortable for different eyes.

                                    DannyD2 There is an app that's available that continuously plays a 120fps one-pixel-wide video in the menu bar, for people who want to force their MB Pro screens to 120hz mode.

                                    Who can share the app's name or link to this app?
                                    Searched in Google, didn't find that.

                                      My early bug report regarding flickering and feedback from Apple.
                                      Link to the screenshot:
                                      https://ibb.co/JkJbSJZ

                                      "…From your descriptions, including using F1-F2 to change brightness resulting flickering, it's possible you may be experiencing an unexpected hardware problem. We recommend you have your device evaluated at an Apple Store or by Apple Support. https://support.apple.com If you strongly believe the issue with your Mac is software related, please file a new report from your Mac, and include Mac sysdiagnose logs in your report so that we may investigate. Thank you for your feedback."

                                      BTW - I've checked 5 different Macbooks Air M3 15'' all of them have this flickering

                                      Sad that when I bought IPS M3 Air I wanted to just use it. I thought IPS = it doesn't flicker.
                                      But Apple added some "features" like: Auto gamma F1-F2 brightness flickering, Dithering flickering.

                                      They want to make IPS flickering. Because If IPS not flickering then it is better than miniled…
                                      So they make it worse on a software level.

                                      …

                                      Now I found myself as a beta-tester for Apple's "new features" that annoys and damages image.
                                      They don't tell to buyer and user whats inside the product.

                                      An unexpected disappointment and weeks of searching to figure out if you're crazy or if it's a defective macbook you've bought. And only then you'll find out that this is how it's Aplpeple meant Macbook to be...

                                      ==

                                      This is like a knife with two blades and without handle - some kind of innovation that makes product worse

                                      Maybe dynamic refresh rate could be also an issue on macbooks, or dynamic voltage control for leds.

                                      Macbook air m3 - brightness is changing not equal

                                      https://ibb.co/PhzV9Nj

                                      Macbook Air M3 15'' IPS built-in display has 16 brightness levels.

                                      I've noticed that 1-8th each step more visible in terms of brightness change 9-16th less visible brightness change Why? Also I've noticed that The most noticeable interference in plain colors appears while brightness is 4 - 7 level of 16. Seems like some image algorithm turns on at those levels, or works more intensive When brightness level 8-16 then white and plain colors seems more stable and without interference.
                                      Dithering is OFF. Seems like it another type of interference.
                                      Comparing to MBP 15'' 2014 - that has brightness change equal in the whole range.

                                      e it another type of interference.
                                      Comparing to MBP 15'' 2014 - that has brightness change equal in the whole range.

                                      ==

                                      https://ibb.co/KzrdBm3

                                      Also I've noticed that Macbook Air M3 15’’

                                      During Mac OS Sequoia installation image is stable, without flickering in plain colors. Like it was in Macbook Pro 15’’ 2014. Great… It means that image "improvement" algorithms used by Apple to make image quality worse

                                      MBA 15'' M3. When there is animation - 4-finger gesture to switch workspace. Then NO flickering effect.

                                      I thought it disappears only when video player is ON, but now it is clear that some other animations also make it disappear.
                                      If you have also MBA 15'' M3. Pls write here about the result of the same test.

                                      App suggestion:

                                      If there will be some tray app that emulate gesture animation and video player - so there will be always smooth image

                                      See video:
                                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPYjMU39FJU

                                        dev