simplex

no, the problem can occur on all processors and all chipsets. The only thing I can say is that one person fixed his problems by buying a completely new PC.

By completely new I mean the motherboard, processor, nvme, ram.

Which were never used, were not repaired, and returned to the seller.

Perhaps the chips (processor, chipset) somehow "break" and begin to emit frequencies that have a bad effect on us, and the video card with the monitor only enhances this effect, like the screen.

Tell me, do you see the effect of running dots on a black background on the screen? As if the pixels are breathing and vibrating on the screen?

like you say, that can be internal pci express controller, inside cpu.

when you enable xmp, it increase voltage of SA.

      Slender see the effect of running dots on a black background on the screen? As if the pixels are breathing and vibrating on the screen?

      It is monitor's pixel invertion and FRC. Each of them have part, which make pixel dance

      Firstly, I got strain with laptop with amd 780m. Then I bought miniPC with amd 780m and found equal strain. Using registers, we found how to disable GPU output dithering. But this not solve eye-strain at all. Using "safe" 4800 memory from npb7 miniPC also didnt solve strain issue. Another timings, reducing DDR5 freq down to 4000mhz… I think it is internal GPU rendering issue, which allow pixel to move chaotic

      Then chaotic pixel dance of GPU meets monitor's FRC/invertion and boom

      You can change monitor's refresh rate to 30 fps - nothing happends. You can reduce monitor's timings to longer, and this also didnt work.

      Finally, you can connect "type-C to HDMI connector" and plug monitor into it. And strain will continue. It does mean, pixel dance imprinted in grapfic pipeline, not in GPU output

      On the other side. WIth my previous laptop, I tried ~4..5 replacement screens. One was bad from the beginnin, from first look. I found using opple4, it has zig-zag wave pulsations of "flicker free" screen. While another screens have more "smoothed" pulsations.

      Slender one person fixed his problems by buying a completely new PC

      What is his new "safe" build?

            simplex

            his build is rtx 4060ti / 7600x

            If you need an exact build of his pc, I'll ask him about it.

            thanks to this forum, i was able to disable dithering on 3070ti and xl2566k, for this i switched my monitor to 6bit via cru.exe and disabled dithering in colorcontrol.

            thanks for the info about frc, does that mean it has nothing to do with eye strain and is considered normal lcd? i haven't noticed this on crt monitors.

            Or did I understand you incorrectly?

            By the way, when I turn on the built-in monitor menu, I see very clear fonts, all the pixels are in their places and do not "shift", but in Windows and BIOS everything looks different.

                Slender his build is rtx 4060ti / 7600x

                Yes, please. Monitor model, grapfic vendor / driver / cable, motherboard name + bios version, memory modules (xmp or not), ? power supply ?, windows build version

                I am not sure if real 8-bit monitors exists. Mostly i watched via slowmotion cam, have dot pixel invertion + spatial dynamic FRC (smooth each 4 square pixels). CRT didnt have LED problems, they have another 🙂

                Yep, the "bad" hardware is noticable even in BIOS. OS doesnt matter. You re lucky if can deal with 3070ti 🙂

                    • JJTL

                    • Post #13

                    simplex I am not sure if real 8-bit monitors exists. Mostly i watched via slowmotion cam, have dot pixel invertion + spatial dynamic FRC

                    I'm reasonably certain a true 8-bit panel can still suffer from potential inversion issues.

                      Slender if it still won't work I can suggest imgur.com or imgbb.com for uploading pics. Also have you heard about NIC causing issues? There's many post of input lag/mouse issues due to consumer Intel nics which I'm sure would also affect video output.

                          jordan

                          hi, thanks for reply!

                          I have tested a huge of external nics, both Intel and realtek. Nic can affect mouse movement, but only as a driver (nic and usb can be processed on core 0)

                          your monitor has high rfi. Although I don’t think this is the cause of the problem, if the device to which your monitor is connected is grounded, this means that the grounding is not done correctly or is not working at all. Your monitor must be grounded via the hdmi/dp cable (if it's not optical) to your graphics card. You can try turning off the power cable and hdmi one by one and check interference.

                            simplex

                            no, unfortunately, I’m just used to pain in my eyes, I didn’t even think that they might not hurt when working with a PC. Unfortunately turning off dithering did not solve this problem for me.

                            Can I leave links to other resources here?

                            bb forum

                            here you can find a person who claims that the motherboard pch is damaged. And because of this, the picture is not displayed as it should be. I ask you to take this with a grain of salt, as the real reason may be different, but this person helped at least one, so I am posting this.

                                i don't think battery vs. AC is a factor in my case

                                (with the exception being purely software/driver things like e.g. AC power mode triggering a higher performance mode on the GPU that enables different rendering features)

                                there's quite a few portable devices that have been noticeably even worse for me, such as the iPhone SE 2020, compared to an average modern desktop monitor or GPU (which FYI are also bad for me, but usually not to the extent of the SE)

                                BTW stuff like wireless is not an issue for me either — if i have a good screen, it's comfortable for me anywhere (or at least anywhere where the lighting is good) — having lots of WiFi devices has never made any of my "truly good" screens worse

                                Slender Unfortunately turning off dithering did not solve this problem for me.

                                I tested gtx1060, rtx2070s, 2080s, 3080, 3080ti with z390 / z690 PC's and 2k 165 / FHD 60hz monitors. And finally i am at z390 + 1060 + FHD 60

                                  • CCAP

                                    • Post #20

                                    Slender

                                    Hello,

                                    Do you think the following can be related to what you mention above?

                                    I have a "working" set up at my job, where I can work with barely any issues. I have tested many monitors at home with no success, dizziness etc.

                                    This week I took my monitor at work to my home, using the exact same laptop and Usb C cable to connect to the monitor… but I feel dizziness at home!!! how is that possible?

                                    The only differences of my home set up:

                                    • I use a different AC power cable to plug the monitor (I charge the laptop thought USB C)
                                    • The table I use is glass and has a metal frame. At work is a wooden table with metal legs.
                                    • I work close to the Router

                                    Does anyone has a possible explanation?

                                    Thanks,

                                        CAP

                                        Hi!

                                        Since your devices work well in one place and poorly in another, this narrows the search to AC problems.

                                        First: what kind of electrical system do you use at work? Is there grounding? What kind of system do you use at home? I mean TN, TT, IT systems.

                                        Second: your laptop most likely does not have a grounding contact in the power supply, so it is grounded to the monitor, and if there is grounding at work, but not at home - this may explain.

                                        Third: both the desk at work and the desk at home have a metal base. The desk at work may be far from the walls from which AC interference comes, and on the contrary, the desk at home may be close to the wall, behind which there is wiring.

                                        I will explain why this is important:

                                        The metal absorbs interference from the walls and then this radiation goes to the devices located on the table. Even if your devices are grounded, interference will still penetrate from the metal base into your devices. To fix this you need to ground your table: connect the metal leg of the table to the ground contact in the socet.

                                        fourth: AC has harmonic distortion. Different networks have different harmonics at different frequencies, and no one knows yet which frequencies affect our heads. (presumably the strongest influence is the low frequencies 100-2000hz)

                                        Perhaps the electricity at your work is cleaner than at home.

                                        • CAP replied to this.

                                            • CCAP

                                              • Post #22

                                              Slender

                                              Thanks for your reply.

                                              I will try to find out about the grounding systems in both places and see if it is different.

                                              My desk at home has wheels so I sometimes work in different locations in the room, far from the wall and I get dizziness too.

                                              Would it help to have a grounding cable attached to the legs of the table?

                                                  CAP

                                                  you need a cheap chinese emi tester like wt3121, if your monitor shows higher than >0mV, it means there is something wrong with the grounding.

                                                      Slender chinese emi tester like wt3121

                                                      what freq range do we need exactly to measure, is EMF meter is enough?

                                                      1. For example, PC monitor's fields, and what happends if I turn-on XMP profile in DDR4 (2133mhz, 3200mhz) - what freqs do I need to catch
                                                      2. Mobile phone, laptop, chargers - what freqs

                                                          simplex

                                                          It is necessary to distinguish between the interference (emi field) caused by AC and the frequencies that are in the emi field. External emi can be measured with a device such as wt3121 (as shown in the photos at the beginning of this thread).

                                                          frequencies can be measured with an oscilloscope.

                                                          What's the problem?

                                                          Even when your monitor will not emit any field (0mV), (at least that wt3121 sees), bad frequencies will still be emitted from your pc, monitor, walls of your house.

                                                          The AC emit itself will always be present, that's physics. Only harmonics within this field have an effect.

                                                          I don't know what frequencies exactly are projected when increasing the voltage of system components (cpu/ram/gpu)

                                                            Slender
                                                            Hope you understand that the "chinese emi tester" you're using is a glorified AM radios (at best) which isn't calibrated for measuring the necessary range you're trying to target, spouting random values.
                                                            Take a look at this review for more information
                                                            You're supposed to use a proper spectrum analyzer from reputable brands such as LeCroy, Keysight, Rohde & Schwarz, Tektronix for this type of troubleshooting, especially when approaching the 2.4–5GHz range.

                                                                5 days later

                                                                qb74

                                                                yes i understand that. And yet it showed a problem. In my case the interference was breaking through to the pc from the metal table. And this is despite the fact that my pc was grounded. I still got 25-35 mV from the monitor screen and the pc. It was very interesting to discover this: I touched the pc case with my hand and the table leg with my foot and saw how the values ​​dropped to 0.

                                                                  simplex
                                                                  his build:
                                                                  7600x
                                                                  32 gb gskill cl28
                                                                  klevv cras c930 m.2 1tb
                                                                  gigabyte 4060 ti 8gb eagle
                                                                  asus PRIME B650M-A AX II
                                                                  antec c5 case white
                                                                  cx750m 2024

                                                                  All components are new, retail os system.

                                                                      dev