Nintendo Switch

diop OT but a good guide on how to dump various disc based games from various consoles.

Reproduced here:

Ok, I'm gonna go a bit into detail here...

Unfortunately you'll need a bunch of drives to cover all those consoles properly, that is if you really only want to use your PC and not the modded consoles to extract the discs (which in many cases saves you quite a lot of time/headache).

PS2 is the easiest of the bunch. As you already found out, these are plain DVDs; any DVD drive will read these discs just fine.

As for Gamecube and Wii discs, you're correct, you need the LG GDR-8161B, GDR-8162B, GDR-8163B or GDR-8164B and a program named FriiDump. Extracting the GC/Wii discs is pretty slow with these drives (you can expect about an hour per GC disc, several hours especially for dual layer Wii discs), so a modded Wii with CleanRip is a more convenient solution.

Xbox and Xbox 360 are quite similar to GC/Wii in that you need a "special" drive, namely a Kreon compatible drive. Kreon is an alternative firmware that allows these select few drives to see the game data on the disc. You can dump the discs with Xbox Backup Creator pretty easily then. If you insert an Xbox or Xbox 360 game disc into a non-Kreon DVD drive, you'll only get a DVD-V partition containing a video telling you that this disc is meant for playback in an Xbox or Xbox 360 console. An example for such a Kreon compatible drive is the Samsung SH-D162C; I can't really remember any other drives, so you'd have to google that.

PS3 and PS4 can be read with most if not all standard Bluray drives.

Xbox One discs seem to be readable by certain drives as well, but I have not looked into that topic at all, so I can't give you any reliable information here.

Wii U discs are impossible to dump on a PC so far.

With CD-based consoles, it really depends whether the disc contains audio tracks. If it doesn't, you can use any CD or DVD drive to dump the disc (for example, 3DO discs don't contain audio tracks, PSX discs sometimes do). If the disc DOES contain audio tracks (as is the case with Saturn discs, Sega CD discs, PCE-CD discs, ...), you'll have to decide... if you don't care about slight (that is, completely unnoticable) inaccuracies, you can use pretty much any CD or DVD drive for dumping them. However, if you're like me and you'd prefer to have super accurate dumps which you can verify against databases such as redump etc, you're gonna need a drive that supports overreading into leadin/-out. I highly recommend a Plextor drive such as the PX760A -- these are excellent drives with great error correction.

As for GD-ROMs (the discs used in the Sega Dreamcast), I highly recommend not dumping them via PC. These discs consist of several "areas"; the one that contains the game data is written in higher density, so it's not accessible on a standard drive. Technically, it's possible to use certain drives -- such as the aforementioned Samsung SH-D162C -- and trick them into reading the discs. The process to do so is really really complicated and involves taking your drive apart. If you're interested in the gruesome details, see http://forum.redump.org/topic/2620/dreamcastnaomi-gdrom-dumping-instructions/

TL;DR: If you really want to do everything via PC, I suggest:

-> LG GDR-8164B (or (8161-8163, whichever you can get) for GC/Wii

-> Samsung SH-D162C for Xbox/Xbox 360 and DC (if you're brave enough...)

-> Plextor PX-760A for CD-based media, i.e. Saturn, PSX, Sega CD etc.

-> any Bluray drive for PS3/PS4

PS2 would be possible on ANY of these drives. CD-based media too, so if you don't need super accurate dumps, you don't need the Plextor.

Plsnostrain your problem might be blue light and not dithering. I also don't think I am sensitive to dithering. But blue light on the other hand. Just crazy...

tfouto

No, i dont think its blue light. That only interferes with my sleep pattern, it has nothing to do with strain. I think its something with the rendering technique ,im not sure its temporal dithering(it could be). I could use the Playstation 4 fine before they updated it last year, so its definetively something they do driver wise. And the iphone 8 plus is also unusable.

Plsnostrain If you reduce the contrast to the minimum possible, when using your PS4 does it have any influence?

No, it didnt do anything whatever settings i tried after the update. I have now sold it.

Well I took the plunge and bought myself a Nintendo Switch, and I'm very happy to report that I don't seem to have any issues with it so far! I did the initial setup for 2 hours on the handheld device without any "LED headache" or terrible pain behind my eyes like I've described with almost every other type of LED monitor. Remember, I'm the guy that will have a really bad headache and aching eyeballs within seconds/minutes of looking at LED-backlit computer monitors in the office.

While this is very exciting for my new purchase (especially as a die-hard Nintendo fan), this almost opens up more questions than it answers. I have not been able to tolerate any modern displays for quite some time now (chiefly LED). Why am I able to tolerate this one? Is the handheld display not an LED perhaps?

I do have one issue with my Switch though, but thankfully it's purely technical and not health related! When I went to dock the Switch to my TV for the first time, the screen constantly trembles, is slightly zoomed-in and off center, and there are flickering lines that appear on the screen. This is on my old 40" Samsung Series 6 LCD TV that I bought 10 years ago. I get slightly better results when I try different HDMI ports (HDMI4 on the side works the best for some reason).

These things do go away if I go in the Switch settings and downgrade the output from "Automatic" or "1080p" down to 720p, but as you can imagine, it's not the most ideal workaround because it doesn't look at good

Gurm I tried plugging the dock into a different power outlet, tried a known good HDMI cable, and then tried different HDMI ports on the TV. HDMI4 on the side of the TV worked fine, while HDMI1, HDMI2, and HDMI3 all seemed to have the problems I was describing. I then played Smash Ultimate until like 1:30 AM last night, and it's a very fun and awesome game!

If the setup works on one port, I'm assuming that might rule out all of the Nintendo Switch stuff if it can work in a particular setup? Maybe I have some weird menu option settings enabled on HDMI[1-3].

MagnuM Well, after taking my Switch to a friends house (also an old LCD Samsung Series 6 but Plasma instead of LCD) and having the exact same issues occur, I was starting to doubt my Switch more and more. I hate doing this, as the store likely has to swallow the loss, but I asked the manager at Shopper Drug Mart if I could do an exchange, even though they mentioned that wasn't their typical policy and that they usually ask customers to go through the manufacturer (i.e. Nintendo). Doing so would mean not having my system during the holidays and my week off, but I guess my niceness paid off, as she made an exception for me and allowed me to have a system exchange performed.

I hooked up Switch #2 in the exact same way as Switch #1, and there are no more flickering lines anymore. Looks like I may have just had some bad luck and was handed a slightly defective system.

There's another more unfortunate possibility for Switch #1 that I'm hoping is a non-factor! I was setting it up in my basement that has a cushy high pile carpet that generates a heck of a lot of static electricity. Each time you shuffle around on it, either on your knees or your socks, you become ... ElectroMan (or Woman!). Every time I touched the Switch handheld while setting up the original system I would give it a shock that would always startle me like it does when you touch a lightswitch. I'm hoping these repeated shocks (it must have gotten at least 10) didn't do anything to the system. This was always against the handheld instead of the dock, but the areas I was shocking it at was always along the bottom edge near the charging port. Could the flickering lines of my first Switch have been caused by static damage perhaps?

MagnuM Could the flickering lines of my first Switch have been caused by static damage perhaps?

I wouldn't discount it as a possibility.

ryans I've only been playing it docked with my old trusty 40" Samsung LCD from 2008. The initial setup is done on the handheld itself though, and I would have known whether I had trouble with it because I would have had aching eyes and felt seasick within seconds/minutes of looking at it like what normally happens with most LED computer monitors. Maybe the handheld screen is backlit by CCFL on the Switch handheld? I'm not sure, but let's just say it was a positive surprise (for once!)

On the Wikipedia article for the Nintendo Switch, it states this about this display:

Display
6.2-inch, 1280 × 720p LCD (237 ppi)
Up to 1080p via HDMI while docked

JTL Another interesting tidbit is that there is no polarization on the Switch screen. While wearing sunglasses, there is no darkening in any orientation. I remember someone here was once theorizing that polarization could even potentially play a factor.

MagnuM

JTL

Yeah, I would go as far as to say there is no chance it's CCFL backlit. Even the DS and PSP were LED backlit. Nobody touches CCFL for these things nowadays for many reasons especially on portable devices where it adds extra power draw and bulk.

Also before pressing post reply I looked up switches being taken apart and it's definitely LED.

Soreeyes That's very interesting then. I thought it was essentially all LED light sources I have a problem with, but maybe not! The list is short, but so far, I don't seem to have problems with the Nintendo Switch LED backlight or the overhead LED lights they installed at work to replace the old fluorescent tubes.

Now I'm wondering what I'm really being bothered by. I bought a flicker-free LED BenQ monitor back in 2013 thinking all my problems would be behind me, only to notice the same type of sharp eye/head pain, but that it just took a bit longer to be brought on.

Are there other types of flicker besides PWM that could be a factor? If there is, why are these other forms of flicker not as problematic on a CCFL-backlit monitor? I can also get similar sharp eye pain / head pain if I increase the brightness too high on my known-good Dell U2410, but it takes longer to set in than any LED-backlit monitor gives me.

MagnuM Are there other types of flicker besides PWM that could be a factor? If there is, why are these other forms of flicker not as problematic on a CCFL-backlit monitor?

DC ripple exists on probably all "flicker-free" monitors.
Pixel inversion is another type of flicker that all LCDs seem to have.
Tearing basically is a form of flicker, maybe harmless, but who knows.
Small power or status LEDs can flicker - don't underestimate this.

I recently found this old article which is pretty interesting: http://www.conradbiologic.com/articles/SubliminalFlickerI.html
Part II covers fluorescents.
It seems he is/was doing research on flicker.

KM "An extreme sensitivity to subliminal flicker is probably due to prior neurological damage."

This passage was most interesting to me. I know some people here have talked about having issues with head injuries before, and their issues started afterwards. Some symptoms of post-concussion syndrome also involve light sensitivity. I however have not had any history of head injuries.

But I'm starting to wonder about side effects of certain drugs (i.e. pharmaceuticals) like anti-depressants or even antibiotics (e.g. fluoroquinolones). God knows what some of these drugs might be doing to our brains...

MagnuM

I thought this too @ all LED = bad for me but it's not quite the case it's more 99% is bad

PSP, DS, and a single LED backlit 2015 Bravia TV are perfectly fine for me. I really wish I knew what made these fine and others not. I'd assume if I had the money and time I could find many more LED lit things that don't destroy my eyes and brain. I also find OLED to be perfectly fine as long as there's no visible to the eye PWM and it's running off something that doesn't cause me symptoms (like an OLED phone using lollipop is always fine for example as was the original PS Vita) never tried an OLED TV though and i hear they work differently. White backlight OLED + filters on top or is it only LG that does this? Regardless I plan on trying one when I can

LEDs and screens aren't created equally so it might be that the switch you have with the specific panel it has just happens to work perfectly for your eyes. It's a shame you can't see the make and model of the screen without taking it apart.

Soreeyes White backlight OLED + filters on top or is it only LG that does this?

Yes, the panels come from LG and other manufacturers buy and use them, too. True RGB OLEDs in TVs are very rare.
https://ledstrain.org/d/175-oled-tv-same-issues