Gurm Ah ok so not the same thing as window manager compositing. My only safe computer is a 13yo 32bit toshiba running 32bit Xubuntu 16.04 that I am afraid to touch or update. I have an iPad 2 from 2012 stuck on iOS9 (which may be a blessing since higher versions seem to bother most people) but it crashes all the time and can't handle most webpages without freezing since there is no ad/script blocking possible on iOS9. My 2013 Nokia Windows Phone is fine as well but is deprecated and has no apps so isn't ideal.

I just cannot find newer HW that works and this stuff is too old to function much longer. I just want to run linux of any flavor or DE on decent laptop and desktop hardware. I don't care what brand or anything anymore...just as long as its pain free and capable. I don't use a phone long enough each day to be bothered by it and can deal with modern Android or iOS for simple phone tasks, so while that would be nice to solve too its not as important as a computer which is literally needed for me to stay alive at this point.

All the hopeful threads I find about linux like this one fizzled out https://ledstrain.org/d/26-on-arch-linux-xfce-eye-strain-problem-is-gone-unsure/13 and there is just no consistently safe combo I have seen posted. I have tried changing video drivers in GRUB as some suggested in the intel forums but that always just broke the DE.

*Also I remember the intel forum thread where the sent TUL or whoever the Thinkpad and I saw people say they didn't test for dithering...so we still really need to find a way to do that.

  • JTL replied to this.

    hpst Also I remember the intel forum thread where the sent TUL or whoever the Thinkpad and I saw people say they didn't test for dithering...so we still really need to find a way to do that.

    TUV. And we don't have the results of the tests that were done so it's just speculation.

      JTL Ah yeah the German lab...we need to figure out how to contact them and ask. I bet intel has some agreement with them though and they'd not release results to us. Do you think its worth making up a post for Hacker News and trying there? You know how that place works where IF you can get front page attention things often morph into arguments about related things and the original issue never gets solved or focused on, and I fear it would devolve into long threads where people insist its just PWM or just posture etc. But I don't know where else to possible find people who might be able to help. Reddit is a joke and useless. Intel shut us down in their forum as you know. Unless you are willing to take this on full time if we can crowdfund you I don't know how else to get any progress....it's been years and years with no eurekas. I find all sorts of people asking similar questions online going back many years, but they never get anything but the usual unhelpful responses and no solutions. Like this for example https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/eye-strain-from-certain-video-modes-drivers.53468/

      • JTL replied to this.

        hpst Do you think its worth making up a post for Hacker News and trying there? You know how that place works where IF you can get front page attention things often morph into arguments about related things and the original issue never gets solved or focused on, and I fear it would devolve into long threads where people insist its just PWM or just posture etc

        Might be worth a try and could possibly raise awareness but I fear the latter (arguments and fixation about unrelated things) could happen.

        hpst Unless you are willing to take this on full time if we can crowdfund you I don't know how else to get any progress....it's been years and years with no eurekas.

        I'd rather not commit to anything at the moment but be rest assured even though I am very busy due to my own personal life and such, it's not a lack of interest preventing me from working on this.

        • hpst replied to this.

          hpst I find all sorts of people asking similar questions online going back many years, but they never get anything but the usual unhelpful responses and no solutions. Like this for example https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/eye-strain-from-certain-video-modes-drivers.53468/

          On one hand with the knowledge of PWM and blue light being common I feel issues like the ones we talk about are less obscure then they used to be. Does that make the end of the story? Not at all. More work needs to be done and there are still many things we aren't certain about.

          JTL but I fear the latter (arguments and fixation about unrelated things) could happen.

          I am positive it would based on years of reading there, and am frankly just so desperate I am revisiting all the bad ideas I have ever had. It's a constant cycle of desperate motivation, trying everything again, failing, being more depressed for a while, then repeat. Every time I think I even find a workaround something comes up to burst that bubble. We need to find someone to supplement your ideas or who can work on this more regularly. I just don't know where to find them.

          • JTL replied to this.

            JTL Yeah every thread I have seen there talking about eye strain in some manner is already off the rails before I notice and could comment and bring up our ideas. Since stuff has a very short lifespan of discussion there unless you are in at the start and get votes there is zero chance of guiding the discussion at all.

            • JTL replied to this.

              hpst

              hpst Since stuff has a very short lifespan of discussion there unless you are in at the start and get votes there is zero chance of guiding the discussion at all.

              Couldn't have explained it better.

              • hpst replied to this.

                JTL I just don't know where else to MAYBE find more people like you to work with you or who could even run with your findings independently. You have too much going on to work on this full time, but you are the only one I have seen with any plausible plan. It's obvious industry isn't going to help...Intel shut it down and acted weird. It's going to have to be an ad hoc solution. I can't wait years so am willing to help crowdfund whoever can help.

                • JTL replied to this.

                  hpst When I paused work on this in January to attempt to get some work done I was half hoping someone else with the right skills would "pick up the torch" and ask me to writeup my research and code for them to them to work on it.

                  I may restart work on this when I'm able and PROPERLY take some notes this time. While I remember almost all of it I think having a set of notes written up would be helpful too.

                  Lot's of interest here, but the skills you need to do this, they aren't the sort of thing you learn in a day from a premade guide. It's from years of somewhat related low-level programming experience.

                  • hpst replied to this.

                    Gurm how do you find the switch in docked mode?

                    • Gurm replied to this.

                      Link Much the same. It's not the screen that causes issues, it's the display chip/driver. Hard to say which was more tolerable, docked vs. handheld, because handheld I took my glasses off and docked I was 10 feet away from my 60" plasma.

                      • Link replied to this.

                        Gurm you can see the film grain type of dithering on the switch?

                        • Gurm replied to this.

                          Link I'd have to go back and check. I sold my switch because it was hurting my eyes, but my kid is buying another one so I'll let you know. It also seemed pretty variable - meaning that an early edition (release day) switch I played with didn't give me issues, and I've seen them hooked up in store displays looking ok... but again those are probably first-gen, first-run units.

                          JTL So how and where do you suggest we find someone to help carry the torch?

                          • JTL replied to this.

                            hpst I don't know anyone who has the time, interest or knowledge to work on this stuff sadly.

                            Other then myself, but like I've said before I have some time constraints at the moment. 😐

                            4 months later

                            So. I just picked up an XBox One S.

                            And... eye strain. Not as instant as the X, but definitely there.

                            What's BEYOND ODD is that I've successfully used the XBox one (S, usually, but occasionally X) in multiple places - conventions, mostly - without problem. Why is it an issue in my living room? Not sure. I'm back to trying to downgrade the original X to last August and see if that helps. If I can pinpoint "yes it was the October 2018 patch that broke it", then I can petition MS to find out what they changed in the display driver/code/etc.

                              Gurm So far only newer computers have caused my eye strain. About 2 years ago I upgraded my original Xbox One to and S and haven't had an issue except for Borderlands 2 from the Handsome Jack collection. I played the original Borderlands 2 on Xbox 360 years ago with no issue but when playing the Xbox one version I couldn't play more than a few minutes without eye strain and a headache.

                              Someone mentioned a switch earlier in the thread so I'll also add, I'm able to play Switch in handheld and TV mode without issue. I'm playing on a 2017 65" Samsung series 8 LED TV.

                              Gurm

                              Could be your tv, If it has a particularly fast response rate then it could make dithering more harsh.

                              To be honest though, I think it could simply be the excitement of being at the convention keeping it from affecting you. I personally find that to be a factor for me.

                              • Gurm replied to this.
                                dev