AGI The light or flicker might be doing something to disturb visual systems ability to do proper eye teaming, so its not that your vergence all of a sudden goes bad. Its always bad, you compensate, in some conditions you cannot.
Also dont just do the exercises, it has to be a guided program in varying intensity and progressions.

a month later

I wanted to share my progress here. I was doing the exercises half-wrong for 2 months, so I was strenghtening the already overpowered eye muscles (thats a reminder that doing something at home that you found on the internet might either make it worse, or might not help at all if it doesnt apply to your specific case).
Now I am on the right track. After two weeks my camera display stopped causing me nausea and stinging pain, isntead it is fine and over time it develops into a pressure. I shouldnt see any progress below 2 months, but I think I am already seeing it a little bit now. Also when testing a painful iphone, I was able to relax while looking into it, as I know now which muscles get tight and cramped and I know how to relax them. I cannot do it for too long yet, however the change is quite noticeable. I my case a complete removal of symptoms via visual therapy is at 84% of cases, so I will see how it develops.

Also when I am tired, I cannot successfully complete the exercises that I did with ease the previous day, maybe explaning why some people have better or worse days with certain displays. I also guess that people who had intial pain from new displays but got "used to it", might have had similar problem but with way less deviancy (mine being extreme at approximately 15 out of 12 measuring points), so therefore the staring into the displays served in itself as a form of therapy and the eyes adjusted.

    martin I've been to another eye doctor recently and have a follow-up appointment next week. She said my eyes move slightly inwards which can be corrected with prismatic* lenses. Reading your description it almost sounds like you have an opposite condition, where the eyes want to move outwards? When I put on the testing glasses and looked through them I quickly got the same kind of eye strain that I have while using certain software (Firefox, some games, etc...). Covering one eye seemed to remove the effect.

    * not sure if this was the right term, I should ask next week

      KM Good! Hope you get some quality care. No mine is the same. It is bit more complicated though, as not only vergence (how eyes move out or in) but accomodation (distance/near focus in each eye) play a role. Literature is badly needed and very little is written. Check here:
      https://i2.wp.com/informationdisplay.org/portals/informationdisplay/issues/2012/03/art9/GIFS/fig2.jpg

      Basically I converge my eyes at a different plane than I accomodate at, having trouble with both. Using one eye removes or significantly reduces the issue, problem is the two are bound together so problems with one can influence the other, hence even one eye usage may not be problem free until you fix it for binocular vision. But to be clear, I could use my camera display with one eye very well, two eyes were problem. Some other things are a bit difficult even with one eye.
      Your eyes can either meet behind the screen (divergence excess or convergence insufficiency) or in front of it (convergence excess or divergence insufficiency). When you try to meet accomodation with vergence, your eyes get stuck in an adjustment loop and never relax, or they just literally strain to get both in line.

      Also - yes the prismatic glasses hurt intensely the first day I used them after some time, then my eyes got used to them. They also bent the image I was seeing, now it all looks normal. They dont help with everything though, which is a mystery to me, but one that I will be more clear on when I finish the visual therapy. They also only help by 1/3 of the complete deviacy I have, as full correction would be unusable. Mine is very off the charts so visual therapy is the only way. I should actually have visible strabismus (lazy eye), and none of the specialists know how its possible that I look normal. Supposedly overpowered it by my will lol.

        ryans Since the glasses, I didnt get a migraine, just slighter headaches from either prolonged use (hours) of a previously unbearable iphone, or from macbooks after shorter time - there the problem might be the larger display. I will see when my therapy is successfully finished and I can complete all the exercises with ease. Then the problem should disappear, and if it doesnt, theres more to it. Im not progressing very fast though, its gonna take months. Im training accomodation and vergence separately and then I have to train them at the same time. But I see changes already and I cant even successfully finish difficulty of level 2 out of 5 or more. So theres hope.

          martin I didn't have any eye strain issues for an entire month, then on Monday, I came back here to catch up on a month's worth of posts, and now I have eye strain again. You can't make this stuff up people! 🙂

          Remember, I have two distinct eye comfort issues. The first one like martin's (convergence insufficiency and accommodative insufficiency), which takes longer to set in over time. We'll call that one issue #1. The second one is near instant and immediate sharp pain in the eyeballs if I look at an LED backlit computer monitor. We'll call that Issue #2.

          With Issue #1, I notice more issues if I'm reading a lot of small text. Sometimes I will spend some time sorting a lot of Outlook e-mail, which involves reading it in the preview pane, filing it, etc. I will often have Issue #1 creep up doing this. However, if I'm looking at pretty charts and graphs and graphics, I find I'm usually OK, even with a full 40 hour work week. I also try to remember the 20/20/20 rule to give my eyeballs a rest by looking in the distance from time to time, or taking a break.

          With Issue #2, forget about it. I avoid LED displays like kryptonite. Long live the Dell U2410 CCFL monitor I use both at work and home!

            MagnuM I can relate to that. If I read small print the same thing happens. All LED screens kill me. That CCFL you use is it flicker free?

              This gives some interesting results if you search on Google:

              vision therapy site:discussions.apple.com
              convergence site:discussions.apple.com

              Looks like vision therapy is not a silver bullet.

                ryans Im not sure how any of this disproves that it cannot work? Also convergence is one out of many issues with vergence. Just because you find one person online who said it helped partially doesnt mean it does not work. Actually quite the opposite - it points to the fact that its multifactorial and that the therapy indeed changed something. Its better to try for yourself. If that is your issue of course, and not something else. There might be no "silver bullet", everyones different.
                Some people erased their symptoms completely by using eye drops and others by changing their medication for other issues. Unless you live in a country where examined for such cases costs like a new mortgage (USA), you cant loose giving it a shot.

                  ryans Looks pretty thorough. In health thread someone also posted about another clinic where one person went to get care. Hope its not too expensive, lemme know how it went.

                  ryans It's a shame I don't live closer to NYC.

                  jasonpicard Not a chance. It flickers like a son-of-a-gun (especially at the 0% brightness I keep it at!) The thing is though, since it's a CCFL backlit, the "off" part of the duty-cycle still has a bit of "glow" from the fluorescent lamp inside, so it probably looks "better" to the ol' brain.

                  Flicker free is not the solution. I've bought several displays, some with PWM and some without any PWM. I still get headaches. I will make a post about that.

                  Eye convergence excess or insufficiency seem to be my problem. I can feel some pain in my head and around the eyes, as if MUSCLES are involved.

                    Alexandre What device do you currently use comfortably? You should get a functional vision analysis to rule out those eye issues or get vision therapy if needed.

                    Alexandre Eye convergence excess or insufficiency seem to be my problem. I can feel some pain in my head and around the eyes, as if MUSCLES are involved.

                    Muscles around the eyes, and in the face and head ARE involved with anything you focus on but that doesn't mean you have an eye defect. My symptoms are tightness around back of head and then in face/eyes leading to headache. The same muscles you feel if you squint and lean forward to look at something small etc.
                    My theory is the constant dithering flickering is causing the muscles to get exhuasted having to constantly refocus and try to lock on to the continual movement in the same way low freq PWM really bothers some people but dithering is worse because its more random and in the images themselves.

                    A lot of people here are confusing eyestrain with CVS and overuse etc. Dry eyes, red eyes, things like this with no muscular issues are not eyestrain in my opinion but rather CVS or overuse etc and you can get them reading paper too long but most people don't spend 12 hours a day reading books. If you don't blink enough or have dry eyes for other reasons then staring at a bright light is going to bother you as well. Some of us probably have both types of issues. Some of us might have photosensitive neurological issues. But I think the people following the "convergence" path are going to be disappointed long term. You can find out instantly if this is your issue by getting an eye exam and prism glasses to correct that. If that's your true problem your "strain" or whatever will be instantly gone. Then you could work on therapy (which takes a year or more often) to work on physically correcting it and not needing the glasses.

                      hpst I agree that PWN is a read herring (at least in my case). In the "eye doctors" thread I wrote about how a Dell U2713H I looked into at work today has given me a horrible headache for over 3 hours (and counting), and I looked at it for less than 5 minutes.

                      This colleague's monitor has given me horrible grief since 2014, and I have to avoid it like kryptonite. I'm not sure how many more reminders I need that it isn't going to work out. It's more of me trying to look "normal" in front of everybody, as I'm sure nobody believes my issue is even real (since they look at it 8 hours a day, every day, with no issue).

                      hpst I seem to have the same disturbs as you. And I agree on dividing between CVS and this other disruptive thing we are suffering from. As said multiple times, I get strain almost instantaneously in front of a "bad" device. It is definitely not overuse. And I do not even need to "converge" and focus my eyes anywhere, because simply staring at a desktop without reading anything bothers me. It looks like a strong allergic reaction. And the effects may take days to fade. In my case I am also quite sensitive to non-incandescent lightning, although I find very tricky to say what is worse between LED and fluorescent light. It seems to be very dependent on the lamp/situation every time.

                      As to the convergence matter, I know my eyes are not "perfect". However, almost 15 years ago I was shown some convergence exercises by a very good optometrist. I quickly improved a lot. 4 years ago I attended a 2 day vision therapy session by Leo Angart I posted about months ago (https://www.vision-training.com/e/index.html). We were about 20 people of any age. Some guys had incredibly thick glasses and huge vision problems, like they could not even see me clearly from a meter without spectacles. After a few hours introduction, we did exercises similar to the ones I was shown by that optometrist 15 years ago. As Mr. Angart had anticipated before beginning the training, many of those people had to go on the same day to a pharmacy buy cheap glasses with reduced diopters. They could not use theirs anymore. They and I who witnessed that could not literally believe our eyes. Some people had to buy again a new pair of glasses after the second day, which was fully focused on training. Now, here comes my point. I went to that therapy session for curiosity, despair - given no eye doctor could figure out my problem - and to explicitly inquire about my computer-related eyestrain. I asked everyone around me and none of those guys, young or old, who came in with glasses thick like a bottle on the first day and with huge convergence issues, had any eyestrain from computer besides the CVS symptoms hpst mentioned (overuse etc. etc.). Mr. Angart suggested blue light was my issue and told me LED screens were not known to flicker like CRTs (BenQ had just come out with flicker-free LED monitors though!). How come I was the one in sorta better eye shape there, but the only one who would go bedridden after seconds of modern device usage? That is another reason why I believe convergence exercises are great, but are not going to solve my problems ever.

                      It has been awful for me the last couple of weeks. I kept my phone off for 5 days but now my MacBook Air is driving me crazy too. For some reasons some updates passed thru although only at Office level, and I cannot explain why they would affect my display. I am hoping I am just over-worrying. I noticed in the past that a sinus attack or a flu which I just did affect my eyes, but I feel I am just finding excuses. It is the device again.

                      I have been long enough but since this thread is about treatments, I would like to add a couple of things. I have been sleeping little, like 3-4 hours a night for long, even if I use UVEX goggles while working on my laptop at night and run f.lux at 4600 K during the day and 1900 K from sunset. The 5 days I did not use my laptop while on holiday I could sleep properly. The day before yesterday I took two pills of 50 mg diphenhydramine hydrochloride and I could sleep. I woke up a bit stoned but the twitching of the muscles around my eyes was greatly reduced and using my laptop resulted less harsh. Today I am back to awful symptoms. What does that mean? Is it neurological?
                      Finally, in the last few weeks I have been doing acupuncture treatments to cure headache, sinus inflammation and insomnia. I did not specifically mention eyestrain to the therapist. Well, I do not know if the recent worsening of my eyestrain could be ascribable to that, but I doubt. Has anyone tried acupuncture against eyestrain?

                        AGI
                        I find many similarities to what you described. I also thought that it could be a kind of allergy as it has the same effect - I immediately feel worse and may require some time to recover. It only doesn't make sense to be allergic to something that isn't material and have direct contact with our body.

                        I also used to sleep better in the past and now spend an hour laying before falling asleep and then wake up multiple times at night only to force myself to sleep further. Actually I don't like sleeping anymore due to it being a tiring process 🙂

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