So, I went from a Sony FW-900 CRT with zero eyestrain from 2004-2009 to a Samsung 2233RZ (first LCD that wasn't total garbage for gaming), still with zero eyestrain. In 2012 I got an Asus VG278H which added a bit of eyestrain, but I figured I was just getting older. In 2014, I got some Gunnar glasses, and this helped enough that it wasn't a big problem anymore (although I'd still get bloodshot eyes after 4 hours)

Later in 2014, I bought an Asus PG278Q (still a TN panel like all the others), and it felt like I was looking into the damn sun. I ran it at zero percent brightness (it's not PWM), turned windows brightness to 35 percent on top of that AND wore anti-blue glasses. It still hurt, and my eyes would still be red after 2 hours per day of use. The monitor was almost as good as the CRT for gaming though, I really liked it.

In 2017 I bought a PG278QR, which had built-in anti-blue settings and was apparently less prone to problems (and I suspected the "insane" brightness might have been a problem with my first-run PG278Q), but even with this AND the anti-blue glasses AND zero percent brightness AND sunglasses on top, it STILL hurt. I also added Philips Hue lighting to my room so I'd have a nice natural lighting tone behind the monitor.

At some point I got a laptop, and the screen also killed my eyes there. This was an IPS panel this time.

That was the straw that broke the camel's back. Both IPS and TN panels hurt my eyes, but only newer ones. I've always been running Nvidia 9 or 10 series hardware in Windows, which means dithering was always disabled. I threw in my old 780TI and made a Windows 7 install, then connected my PG278QR to that - no change.

I decided to sell the PG278QR and buy something totally different - a VA panel (LG 32gk850g). This... has finally solved it. The bags under my eyes are significantly reduced after only a week, and my eyes are very obviously less red (at all). I still wear anti-blue glasses but I don't use the anti-blue modes on the monitor. I can stare at it for 12 hours without discomfort. Gaming is still possible on this monitor, although motion clarity isn't in the same ballpark as the PG278QR. Movies are improved on this one, however.

Just thought I'd post this, in case anyone else is hoarding old CCFL monitors. Try a high-end VA panel!

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/lg_32gk850g.htm

    f3likx Congratulations on finding something that worked for you! Interesting findings...

    Don't get me wrong I am glad when anyone can feel better...but WHY? This is the thing I can never find out. I see people saying a particular thing worked but we never learn WHY. Until we find the root cause/s it doesn't really make me feel good about anything.

    I have never seen a reproducable solution across a major category and rather it's specific things in specific scenarios. Did VA solve this or is it VA in combination with some other settings, or even just THAT particular VA panel. Its always just "I got lucky with this particular thing" and its like taste testing 100 things to see which one DOESN'T give you an anaphylactic shock and crossing your fingers that when you eat that "safe" thing again nothing about it or the conditions you are eating in has changed that will mess you up. I hate living this way.

    Sorry for how I sound...but this is runing my last chance and I have weeks at best to solve it definitively so I am always waffling between depression/hoplessness...and anxiety. Even if I spend 700usd on this VA panel I still cannot use laptops (never found one with TRUE VA in it...just IPS variants using VA in the name, or mobile devices so it's just a more expensive CCFL situation limiting you to specific and less common stuff.

      hpst

      hpst but WHY? This is the thing I can never find out. I see people saying a particular thing worked but we never learn WHY. Until we find the root cause/s it doesn't really make me feel good about anything.

      I think you hit the nail on the head with this one.

      What could it be besides flicker, wavelength, and polarization? Is there anything else to light? Any ideas?

      • hpst replied to this.

        KM

        I cannot think of any plausible reason the liquid crystal alignment type could cause eye strain. TN/IPS/VA are just ways of turning the crystals with current so they "twist" the light coming through the rear polarizer to let it through the front polarizer. Every LCD has this arrangement regardless of backlight type...even CCFL ones that seem to be better for many people. I have yet to find one consistent tech characteristic for my particular strain. Every possible factor...backlight/OS/panel type etc etc has at least one example that invalidates that ALWAYS being the problem (LED MOSTLY is bad) or ALWAYS being safe (with the exception of a very small CCFL sample size). And even if CCFL is ultimately always safe I still don't know why.

          One thing is for sure: This is the most expensive monitor I have seen in a while.

          • JTL replied to this.

            JTL

            I had a 2011 Macbook Pro 17" anti-glare that panelook.com says was an RGB backlit display ...I sold it a couple years ago before my strain begain, but wish I still had it to see if that matters. The 15" version used a WLED display and I have gotten in front of one of those recently and it triggers me. The panels aren't even made anymore and the device had a fatal GPU flaw anyway so even picking one up on eBay for the stupid prices listed is a dead end. It does seem like if blue light was my problem the UVEX glasses would have solved it...but they didn't matter.

            • JTL replied to this.

              hpst How do you know the older 2011 MBP was RGB backlit for sure? I've known Apple corporate contacts who've said nothing of that sort.

              The only way I'm willing to believe it's RGB backlit is someone finds the display panel model from it running a command under OS X or taking it apart.

              • hpst replied to this.

                JTL

                The only 17" 1920x1200 anti-glare LVDS panels listed on panelook with LED backlighting were these Samsungs with RGB leds...the rest are CCFL and the 2011 had LED backlighting according to the specs and would have had to due to thinness anyway. If you select glossy as a finish option then you get some WLED versions...but for antiglare its CCFL or RGB LED. Perhaps some are missing from the site but panelook.com lists historical, out of production displays and has always been complete in my experience.

                http://www.panelook.com/modelsearch.php?op=advancedsearch&order=panel_id&inch_low=1700&inch_high=1700&resolution_pixels=8190&signal_type_category=90&surface_glare=AG

                • JTL replied to this.

                  JTL

                  It would be good to know since if they actually were it lends some evidence in my case that the WLEDs are at least part of the problem....then again the problem could have started later since I don't have that panel anymore to compare. It was only the antiglare 17" that could have had it as there were no RGB 15" panels. That year was a ticking time bomb for the GPU so I am not spending 800+ dollars on eBay (people are insane) for a 7yo laptop with a fatal flaw that Apple has deprecated anyway just to see what panel is inside or if it hurts now or not.

                  But also the UVEX full blue blockers should have helped if the higher blue spike was my problem on WLED displays. Nothing ever seems to make clear sense.

                  • JTL replied to this.

                    JTL

                    I trust panelook before laptopscreen.com. They don't seem very competent in my experience and send the wrong stuff to people constantly. According to panelook the LTN170CT10-G01 was only available in matte.

                    If there is something magical about actual VA panels per the OP it would be great to know what. I've not been able to find a laptop with a true VA panel...just AHVA and other IPS variants with the confusing names. I've never used a VA so have no clue if it would help but there are so many other variables to account for as well and it doesn't help with portable devices anyway so is just a more expensive vesion of the CCFL special needs game.

                      hpst

                      Multiple people have claimed a VA panel worked for them. This LG one now and someone mentioned a Benq VA panel the other day that solved their eye strain while working on a computer.

                      A 4k 65" LED backlit VA panel Sony Bravia from 2015 with an android 5.0 based smart OS is the only LED backlit TV (or monitor) I've ever been able to use as well.

                      From this anecdotal evidence it would seem at the very least VA may be some help as to figuring SOME of this out and having something new we can use. CCFL is a dying tech after all, new ones get used and used ones break or get thrown out every day. There are some overly expensive professional CCFL monitors still being made for people who need the best colour accuracy possible because CCFL leads to better gamut or something IIRC.

                      Having something to use is better than having nothing to use regardless.

                      hpst

                      I hear you. I've tried to rule out as many variables as I could - OLED doesn't seem to cause problems for me, as the Oculus Rift DK2 and HTC Vive don't cause me undue eyestrain, and it's impossible to wear anti-blue glasses in those so it would be VERY noticeable. I've also had a Note 2, Galaxy S7, and Pixel 2 cause no issues (all OLED). I have relentlessly and exhaustively tried almost every possible combination of software settings and monitor calibrations, but I still haven't been able to narrow the issue down to one particular problem area - it's not dithering, anti-blue, PWM, refresh rate, brightness, contrast or gamma related for me. I somewhat recently got another old Samsung 2233RZ for testing, and I can confirm it still gives me zero eyestrain. I also still have the VG278H, and it still gives minor eyestrain, but it feels like sheer relief to look at that one after compared to the PG278QR. The laptop is almost as bad as the PG278QR, by the way.

                      It's a lot of money, but if you want to remember what it feels like to actually enjoy using your own PC, I recommend you do the same as me - with the disclaimer that you often have a week (or more) to return your new monitor for any reason.

                      I'm curious to hear if anyone has a true VA panel which doesn't work for them so far. The panel tech still has a lot of room to grow, but it's really not terrible right now. Cheap VA's do have horrendous motion blur, but if someone needs one for work, they do get pretty cheap at the low end. I'm just not sure if this is an isolated case of "lucky model/combination of hardware features works for one person", as some very old TNs and IPS panels didn't bother me, but I'd like to know if there's something to VA's.

                      • KM replied to this.

                        f3likx I'm curious to hear if anyone has a true VA panel which doesn't work for them so far.

                        I have tried several BenQs, all with a VA panel (maybe not all "true VA"), and only one of them is truly usable - under the right conditions: OS, software, graphics card, external devices...
                        The other ones, under the same conditions, are not usable for me. Well one of them is: EW2440L at zero brightness in a dark room, but I still get some eye strain over the course of a few hours.
                        The usable monitor is EW2740L. It has an AMVA panel. Another device of the very same model does not work for me, which makes things even harder to understand. I still suspect the type of backlight is responsible for the eye strain. But no proof.

                        In the meantime, it seems monitor manufacturers have gone great lengths to put advanced image processing into their monitors, more and more replacing good old "stupid" firmwares. So on a modern monitor we might soon never know if the type of firmware being used might be an additional eye strain factor. Like it may be the case with smart TVs.

                        On the other hand, iPhones have an IPS screen, and some of them are usable while others are not. Display lottery. Maybe backlight lottery.

                          KM

                          Thanks for sending me into even deeper depression man 😉

                          I was thinking about ordering a cheaper VA panel if those seemed universally ok, but as you said and I always come back to after thinking on it, there are too many other variables to account for and every time I have seen someone say "this worked" it doesn't work for me and I am out more money I cannot afford on return and restocking etc. And everytime I THINK I have a breakthrough it's either false hope or not reproducable on the SAME hardware. For all I know CCFL isn't even safe for me...I've only used a couple recently.

                          Looks like I've posted a little misinformation, then - the LG 32gk850 uses an AUO manufactured AMVA panel, so it's not just "VA" and it's not "true VA", which is old and seems irrelevant.

                          It's interesting that old VA panels didn't work for you, KM... I wish I had one around for testing!

                          • KM replied to this.
                            dev