JTL

The only 17" 1920x1200 anti-glare LVDS panels listed on panelook with LED backlighting were these Samsungs with RGB leds...the rest are CCFL and the 2011 had LED backlighting according to the specs and would have had to due to thinness anyway. If you select glossy as a finish option then you get some WLED versions...but for antiglare its CCFL or RGB LED. Perhaps some are missing from the site but panelook.com lists historical, out of production displays and has always been complete in my experience.

http://www.panelook.com/modelsearch.php?op=advancedsearch&order=panel_id&inch_low=1700&inch_high=1700&resolution_pixels=8190&signal_type_category=90&surface_glare=AG

  • JTL replied to this.

      JTL

      It would be good to know since if they actually were it lends some evidence in my case that the WLEDs are at least part of the problem....then again the problem could have started later since I don't have that panel anymore to compare. It was only the antiglare 17" that could have had it as there were no RGB 15" panels. That year was a ticking time bomb for the GPU so I am not spending 800+ dollars on eBay (people are insane) for a 7yo laptop with a fatal flaw that Apple has deprecated anyway just to see what panel is inside or if it hurts now or not.

      But also the UVEX full blue blockers should have helped if the higher blue spike was my problem on WLED displays. Nothing ever seems to make clear sense.

      • JTL replied to this.

          JTL

          I trust panelook before laptopscreen.com. They don't seem very competent in my experience and send the wrong stuff to people constantly. According to panelook the LTN170CT10-G01 was only available in matte.

          If there is something magical about actual VA panels per the OP it would be great to know what. I've not been able to find a laptop with a true VA panel...just AHVA and other IPS variants with the confusing names. I've never used a VA so have no clue if it would help but there are so many other variables to account for as well and it doesn't help with portable devices anyway so is just a more expensive vesion of the CCFL special needs game.

              hpst

              Multiple people have claimed a VA panel worked for them. This LG one now and someone mentioned a Benq VA panel the other day that solved their eye strain while working on a computer.

              A 4k 65" LED backlit VA panel Sony Bravia from 2015 with an android 5.0 based smart OS is the only LED backlit TV (or monitor) I've ever been able to use as well.

              From this anecdotal evidence it would seem at the very least VA may be some help as to figuring SOME of this out and having something new we can use. CCFL is a dying tech after all, new ones get used and used ones break or get thrown out every day. There are some overly expensive professional CCFL monitors still being made for people who need the best colour accuracy possible because CCFL leads to better gamut or something IIRC.

              Having something to use is better than having nothing to use regardless.

                hpst

                I hear you. I've tried to rule out as many variables as I could - OLED doesn't seem to cause problems for me, as the Oculus Rift DK2 and HTC Vive don't cause me undue eyestrain, and it's impossible to wear anti-blue glasses in those so it would be VERY noticeable. I've also had a Note 2, Galaxy S7, and Pixel 2 cause no issues (all OLED). I have relentlessly and exhaustively tried almost every possible combination of software settings and monitor calibrations, but I still haven't been able to narrow the issue down to one particular problem area - it's not dithering, anti-blue, PWM, refresh rate, brightness, contrast or gamma related for me. I somewhat recently got another old Samsung 2233RZ for testing, and I can confirm it still gives me zero eyestrain. I also still have the VG278H, and it still gives minor eyestrain, but it feels like sheer relief to look at that one after compared to the PG278QR. The laptop is almost as bad as the PG278QR, by the way.

                It's a lot of money, but if you want to remember what it feels like to actually enjoy using your own PC, I recommend you do the same as me - with the disclaimer that you often have a week (or more) to return your new monitor for any reason.

                I'm curious to hear if anyone has a true VA panel which doesn't work for them so far. The panel tech still has a lot of room to grow, but it's really not terrible right now. Cheap VA's do have horrendous motion blur, but if someone needs one for work, they do get pretty cheap at the low end. I'm just not sure if this is an isolated case of "lucky model/combination of hardware features works for one person", as some very old TNs and IPS panels didn't bother me, but I'd like to know if there's something to VA's.

                • KM replied to this.

                    f3likx I'm curious to hear if anyone has a true VA panel which doesn't work for them so far.

                    I have tried several BenQs, all with a VA panel (maybe not all "true VA"), and only one of them is truly usable - under the right conditions: OS, software, graphics card, external devices...
                    The other ones, under the same conditions, are not usable for me. Well one of them is: EW2440L at zero brightness in a dark room, but I still get some eye strain over the course of a few hours.
                    The usable monitor is EW2740L. It has an AMVA panel. Another device of the very same model does not work for me, which makes things even harder to understand. I still suspect the type of backlight is responsible for the eye strain. But no proof.

                    In the meantime, it seems monitor manufacturers have gone great lengths to put advanced image processing into their monitors, more and more replacing good old "stupid" firmwares. So on a modern monitor we might soon never know if the type of firmware being used might be an additional eye strain factor. Like it may be the case with smart TVs.

                    On the other hand, iPhones have an IPS screen, and some of them are usable while others are not. Display lottery. Maybe backlight lottery.

                        KM

                        Thanks for sending me into even deeper depression man 😉

                        I was thinking about ordering a cheaper VA panel if those seemed universally ok, but as you said and I always come back to after thinking on it, there are too many other variables to account for and every time I have seen someone say "this worked" it doesn't work for me and I am out more money I cannot afford on return and restocking etc. And everytime I THINK I have a breakthrough it's either false hope or not reproducable on the SAME hardware. For all I know CCFL isn't even safe for me...I've only used a couple recently.

                          Looks like I've posted a little misinformation, then - the LG 32gk850 uses an AUO manufactured AMVA panel, so it's not just "VA" and it's not "true VA", which is old and seems irrelevant.

                          It's interesting that old VA panels didn't work for you, KM... I wish I had one around for testing!

                          • KM replied to this.

                            f3likx It's interesting that old VA panels didn't work for you, KM

                            Actually the monitor is the oldest of them all so it probably has the oldest panel. I tried it because it was one of the first officially "flicker-free" monitors. Before I did not even bother anymore to try any monitor since I used to get strain and headaches with all of them, including CCFL types, knowing they all flickered. So I believed the reason for my problems was flicker. My oldest TFT is a 19" with true 8 bit PVA panel. It was not easy to look at. Back then I noticed for the first time that by using the gamma or brightness slider in my 3dfx Voodoo 3's graphics card driver tab it would lead to immediate software eye strain. On top of the other symptoms. I quickly learned not to do that anymore. The monitor had a pivot function, meaning you could rotate it by 90 degrees. To make that mode any useful, you had to rotate the screen's content, too via the graphic cars driver: immediate software eye strain.
                            I later replaced the 3dfx with an ATI, and even then the gamma and brightness sliders were toxic. I guess today rarely anybody uses them anymore. Not sure if they still add additional eye strain. But this shows that the software problem in particular exists a lot longer and is not exclusive to LED-backlit monitors - they did not even exist back then. Some of us luckily do not seem to be affected by software, but if you are, you can imagine it gets a lot harder to identify a display that works for you. The wrong software setting would keep you from recognizing an otherwise usable display.

                              It's a brutally annoying problem. I actually have a 3dfx voodoo 5 system with a 19 inch CRT on the other side of my desk, and I can use windows 98 on that for as long as I want without issue.

                              Don't give up, dude. I've had iphones, tablets and some projectors hurt my eyes (rainbow effect seems related to eye-strain for me), but I'm good for another few years with this new monitor. I will be running some VMs with hardware passthrough on it, and if I find a way to induce eyestrain on it I'll be sure to post it here, but I don't expect that to happen. Usually I can tell within 5-10 minutes if the problem is present, and it is 100 percent non-existent for me right now. I'm back to staring at monitors all day at work, then all night at home - no problems.

                              Can anyone else give their opinions on these screens? Are there smaller screens of the same batch?

                              • JTL replied to this.
                                2 months later

                                @f3likx now that some time passed (2 months) could you please give us an update on how your eyes are doing? Would be interesting to know if you still have the same good feeling as you experienced before. Thanks

                                So, I typically run the monitor at 144 or 165hz in "reading mode" (which adds an anti-blue filter), unless I'm playing a fast-paced shooter or watching a movie with nice colors - I switch to regular color mode for those. I do use low brightness settings since my room is often somewhat darkened (I have Hue lights overhead), but that doesn't impact the image quality on this display like it does on the TN's I've owned. I typically turn on the built-in backwards-facing ambient light if it's night time.

                                After 2 months, my experience hasn't changed: I can still use it for many hours a day, even on top of the 8 I spend at work looking at a couple 1080p 60hz IPS panels. The eyestrain level I experience with it is equivalent to the lowest of any display device I own or come across at work, with the exception of an e-ink display.

                                For me, it is the same eyestrain level as a CCFL backlit display.

                                  f3likx

                                  Can you tell me your set up outside of the monitor? ie GPU, driver version and OS? (also what previous gpu's have worked for you)

                                  Thanks!

                                      Soreeyes

                                      GPU is a 1080ti, OS is windows 10 1803, driver 382.53. I also have a windows 7 dual-boot, which didn't have any impact on eye-strain for me (I would use windows 7 for lower input lag and better MIDI support in classic Doom)

                                      I haven't had a gpu "work" for me after or including the 780ti, which I was running with both the Asus VG278H and later the PG278Q (which is when the eystrain issues became a hugely noticeable problem for me). I went from the 780ti to a 980, then a 980ti, then the 1080ti with the PG278Q, then PG278QR, and now this monitor.

                                      • hpst replied to this.

                                          Is this the first report here of a 10xx series Nvidia GPU working fine for someone?

                                          @f3likx Was the 1080Ti OK on your previous screen(s) or not?

                                          I'm curious because I've had no joy on anything newer than a late model 970, including 980, 980Ti, 1070, 1080 with my known good Dell 2407 CCFL monitor.

                                            dev