hpst

I hear you. I've tried to rule out as many variables as I could - OLED doesn't seem to cause problems for me, as the Oculus Rift DK2 and HTC Vive don't cause me undue eyestrain, and it's impossible to wear anti-blue glasses in those so it would be VERY noticeable. I've also had a Note 2, Galaxy S7, and Pixel 2 cause no issues (all OLED). I have relentlessly and exhaustively tried almost every possible combination of software settings and monitor calibrations, but I still haven't been able to narrow the issue down to one particular problem area - it's not dithering, anti-blue, PWM, refresh rate, brightness, contrast or gamma related for me. I somewhat recently got another old Samsung 2233RZ for testing, and I can confirm it still gives me zero eyestrain. I also still have the VG278H, and it still gives minor eyestrain, but it feels like sheer relief to look at that one after compared to the PG278QR. The laptop is almost as bad as the PG278QR, by the way.

It's a lot of money, but if you want to remember what it feels like to actually enjoy using your own PC, I recommend you do the same as me - with the disclaimer that you often have a week (or more) to return your new monitor for any reason.

I'm curious to hear if anyone has a true VA panel which doesn't work for them so far. The panel tech still has a lot of room to grow, but it's really not terrible right now. Cheap VA's do have horrendous motion blur, but if someone needs one for work, they do get pretty cheap at the low end. I'm just not sure if this is an isolated case of "lucky model/combination of hardware features works for one person", as some very old TNs and IPS panels didn't bother me, but I'd like to know if there's something to VA's.

  • KM replied to this.

      f3likx I'm curious to hear if anyone has a true VA panel which doesn't work for them so far.

      I have tried several BenQs, all with a VA panel (maybe not all "true VA"), and only one of them is truly usable - under the right conditions: OS, software, graphics card, external devices...
      The other ones, under the same conditions, are not usable for me. Well one of them is: EW2440L at zero brightness in a dark room, but I still get some eye strain over the course of a few hours.
      The usable monitor is EW2740L. It has an AMVA panel. Another device of the very same model does not work for me, which makes things even harder to understand. I still suspect the type of backlight is responsible for the eye strain. But no proof.

      In the meantime, it seems monitor manufacturers have gone great lengths to put advanced image processing into their monitors, more and more replacing good old "stupid" firmwares. So on a modern monitor we might soon never know if the type of firmware being used might be an additional eye strain factor. Like it may be the case with smart TVs.

      On the other hand, iPhones have an IPS screen, and some of them are usable while others are not. Display lottery. Maybe backlight lottery.

          KM

          Thanks for sending me into even deeper depression man 😉

          I was thinking about ordering a cheaper VA panel if those seemed universally ok, but as you said and I always come back to after thinking on it, there are too many other variables to account for and every time I have seen someone say "this worked" it doesn't work for me and I am out more money I cannot afford on return and restocking etc. And everytime I THINK I have a breakthrough it's either false hope or not reproducable on the SAME hardware. For all I know CCFL isn't even safe for me...I've only used a couple recently.

            Looks like I've posted a little misinformation, then - the LG 32gk850 uses an AUO manufactured AMVA panel, so it's not just "VA" and it's not "true VA", which is old and seems irrelevant.

            It's interesting that old VA panels didn't work for you, KM... I wish I had one around for testing!

            • KM replied to this.

              f3likx It's interesting that old VA panels didn't work for you, KM

              Actually the monitor is the oldest of them all so it probably has the oldest panel. I tried it because it was one of the first officially "flicker-free" monitors. Before I did not even bother anymore to try any monitor since I used to get strain and headaches with all of them, including CCFL types, knowing they all flickered. So I believed the reason for my problems was flicker. My oldest TFT is a 19" with true 8 bit PVA panel. It was not easy to look at. Back then I noticed for the first time that by using the gamma or brightness slider in my 3dfx Voodoo 3's graphics card driver tab it would lead to immediate software eye strain. On top of the other symptoms. I quickly learned not to do that anymore. The monitor had a pivot function, meaning you could rotate it by 90 degrees. To make that mode any useful, you had to rotate the screen's content, too via the graphic cars driver: immediate software eye strain.
              I later replaced the 3dfx with an ATI, and even then the gamma and brightness sliders were toxic. I guess today rarely anybody uses them anymore. Not sure if they still add additional eye strain. But this shows that the software problem in particular exists a lot longer and is not exclusive to LED-backlit monitors - they did not even exist back then. Some of us luckily do not seem to be affected by software, but if you are, you can imagine it gets a lot harder to identify a display that works for you. The wrong software setting would keep you from recognizing an otherwise usable display.

                It's a brutally annoying problem. I actually have a 3dfx voodoo 5 system with a 19 inch CRT on the other side of my desk, and I can use windows 98 on that for as long as I want without issue.

                Don't give up, dude. I've had iphones, tablets and some projectors hurt my eyes (rainbow effect seems related to eye-strain for me), but I'm good for another few years with this new monitor. I will be running some VMs with hardware passthrough on it, and if I find a way to induce eyestrain on it I'll be sure to post it here, but I don't expect that to happen. Usually I can tell within 5-10 minutes if the problem is present, and it is 100 percent non-existent for me right now. I'm back to staring at monitors all day at work, then all night at home - no problems.

                Can anyone else give their opinions on these screens? Are there smaller screens of the same batch?

                • JTL replied to this.
                  2 months later

                  @f3likx now that some time passed (2 months) could you please give us an update on how your eyes are doing? Would be interesting to know if you still have the same good feeling as you experienced before. Thanks

                  So, I typically run the monitor at 144 or 165hz in "reading mode" (which adds an anti-blue filter), unless I'm playing a fast-paced shooter or watching a movie with nice colors - I switch to regular color mode for those. I do use low brightness settings since my room is often somewhat darkened (I have Hue lights overhead), but that doesn't impact the image quality on this display like it does on the TN's I've owned. I typically turn on the built-in backwards-facing ambient light if it's night time.

                  After 2 months, my experience hasn't changed: I can still use it for many hours a day, even on top of the 8 I spend at work looking at a couple 1080p 60hz IPS panels. The eyestrain level I experience with it is equivalent to the lowest of any display device I own or come across at work, with the exception of an e-ink display.

                  For me, it is the same eyestrain level as a CCFL backlit display.

                    f3likx

                    Can you tell me your set up outside of the monitor? ie GPU, driver version and OS? (also what previous gpu's have worked for you)

                    Thanks!

                        Soreeyes

                        GPU is a 1080ti, OS is windows 10 1803, driver 382.53. I also have a windows 7 dual-boot, which didn't have any impact on eye-strain for me (I would use windows 7 for lower input lag and better MIDI support in classic Doom)

                        I haven't had a gpu "work" for me after or including the 780ti, which I was running with both the Asus VG278H and later the PG278Q (which is when the eystrain issues became a hugely noticeable problem for me). I went from the 780ti to a 980, then a 980ti, then the 1080ti with the PG278Q, then PG278QR, and now this monitor.

                        • hpst replied to this.

                            Is this the first report here of a 10xx series Nvidia GPU working fine for someone?

                            @f3likx Was the 1080Ti OK on your previous screen(s) or not?

                            I'm curious because I've had no joy on anything newer than a late model 970, including 980, 980Ti, 1070, 1080 with my known good Dell 2407 CCFL monitor.

                              AgentX20 I have a self built 1050Ti setup with an Eizo flexscan ev2336w and its good for all day use.
                              just for info my eye profile background is sensitivity to led backlight pwm and after 2013 macbooks I cant use. So eizo and windows (auto updates) have been good for me so far.

                                a month later

                                f3likx You still around? Can you update us on the display and if everything is still good? Have you tried it with different hardware?

                                  Everything is still good, but I do use the "reading" mode on the panel now, and I continue to wear my anti-blue glasses as well... the main cause for this is the brightness is too high in all the other modes. I can still see all details in dark scenes at 0 percent brightness. Using the monitor without anti-blue glasses is doable, but I save that for days I haven't been staring at screens for 8 hours at work already.

                                  As for different hardware, I have some IPS Dell P2312H panels at work which annoy me (but I use anti-blue glasses there), and I still use an ASUS VG278H 120hz TN panel at home which annoys me significantly more than the 32GK850G (which now has a cheaper freesync version, if I'm correct). I have a Pixel 2 which causes eyestrain, but with the "night mode" enabled, it seems to have almost zero eyestrain. I also have an Nvidia Shield tablet, which causes zero eyestrain in any modes. It is a bit bright at minimum, but that's separate from my main issue.

                                  I haven't gone over to the 2080ti due to the skyrocketing failure rates of any Micron-equipped, standard PCB versions... which is to say, most of them. When I do, I'll update this - but I really don't expect to experience any difference in eye strain.

                                  It took a while to get used to seeing the whites of my eyes in the mirror (instead of yellow or red!)

                                    f3likx I have a Pixel 2 which causes eyestrain, but with the "night mode" enabled, it seems to have almost zero eyestrain.

                                    This caught my attention. Does anyone know why this would be? Those utilities aren't reducing bluelight frequencies getting to your eyes really, just tinting things, so even if you were hypersensitive to blue light it shouldn't make such a difference. I wonder if "night mode" changes some other aspect like dithering or something else?

                                    Interesting the Shield is fine...what Android version is it running?

                                    It IS very frustrating how so many displays are so bright, some even at the lowest possible setting, and how people seem to laud massive bright displays on review sites. They act like anything under 300nits is simply unsuable but I never go above the lowest two steps on any backlight.

                                    • KM replied to this.

                                        KM I have found that newer iPhones that are OLED/AMOLED burn my eyes, get them bloodshot and then water. I got the new iPhone X and that was it. Even looking at Galaxy Phones, and the Pixel phones do the same as well.

                                        The older iPhones - which are not OLED, but have IPS panels are fine.

                                        Then on the computer side - No pain on any PC except the 4K machines. Macbook - All new macbooks get my eyes bloodshot. I have no clue.

                                        • KM replied to this.

                                            f3likx I haven't gone over to the 2080ti due to the skyrocketing failure rates of any Micron-equipped, standard PCB versions... which is to say, most of them. When I do, I'll update this - but I really don't expect to experience any difference in eye strain.

                                            Keep us posted. Still holding out some hope that the 20 series might be different.

                                            (Much in the same way I'd like to try out an AMD Vega 56 or 64...)

                                                dev