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hpst I do plan to test this after I get the same/similar laptop as @deepflame after the capture card. Just a few more things to sort out with my desktop before I order it, nothing to do with you.
I'll write you a summery email tomorrow.
Eyestrain solved after 6 years and multiple panels - LG 32gk850g
JTL Well if Catalyst isn't used anymore as you said its likely this is old news. I was hoping I could either with a swtich or config file do the 10-bit enabling on a modern system and test it. Excited for nothing I guess since a 2008 year Thinkpad being usable isn't really helpful to me even if it works on that.
JTL I have two of these Lenovo W500 now and one has gone bad. I think the reason was that I installed the Eizo drivers that came with the ColorEdge display I got. Now it even dithers on boot which the other good one does not.
I already tried to remove the battery and to reset the CMOS but I am not sure if it really helped. It may be that the Windows software made it bad again after boot.
Will test this again when time permits. ( I learned the hard way that color calibration has a big impact on dithering. this just shows me that colors and color depth play a big role in this. )
Just to let you know that there may be some things to look out for.
a month later
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andc i suspect that notebookcheck pwm reviews are highly untrustworthy.
i have read several reviews that dont match.
Also my Xperia XZ 2, in notebookcheck, says it has pwm until 28%. But i check that it has also beyond that point almost until 100% with my canon 550D at 1/4000. I also use a 1.4 aperture lens, so i can i have light to check it.
Above the 28% brightness what happens is that the phone seems to go to a higher pwm frequency.
Until 28% is 2khz, above that seems to double it.
I am waiting for my oscilloscope to arrive to check it properly.
So maybe some displays, change PWM frequency depending on brightness.
It would be good to know if all the Notebookcheck's reviewers use the same gear and procedures to test for PWM and what the max frequency that can be checked is. I've also seen different results on almost the same machines, but I thought that this is related to different panels or internal components. Actually such information should be provided by manufacturers, the same way as refresh rate, contrast, since it becomes a rather important factor and isn't so easy to test properly.
andc You record on your microscope with HTC 10 at 120 fps?
The leds change at different frequencies. For instance if you could record at 2000 khz you could watch them flicker at a different rate, if they would have pwm. For 120fps they change differently, if you record at 60fps also differently.
Maybe for the eye there is a worst range.
a month later
15 days later
tfouto
(Please excuse late reply, I haven't been keeping eye on the forum too often recently)
It may be hard to explain, but that's how I do it:
- Phone - I created a small construction on top of microscope so phone can be safely placed and aimed against focus of microscope. It's a wood "support" on which phone lays and this wood is glued using two-sided tape to microscope. I've also added two rubber bands to keep the phone in place and it works pretty well. If this information is not enough, I'll make a photo of how it looks
- Bottom - you adjust the shelf of microscope using rotating wheel, so basically screen that is going to be tested needs to be placed on this shelf (it's good to remove the metal holding parts to avoid scratches on surface) and its height needs to be adjusted to make sure that you / camera sees pixel correctly. Since it usually requires to put screen flat on around 7cm I use a thick book as a support on the other side and it's fine - both for phones and laptops / tablets. It's not a sturdy construction, so it's safer to do it on wide table, or floor.
tfouto Also my Xperia XZ 2, in notebookcheck, says it has pwm until 28%. But i check that it has also beyond that point almost until 100% with my canon 550D at 1/4000.
Have you ever used Iris? It would be nice to check that it effectively allows for any level of brightness without inducing PWM...
tfouto Until 28% is 2khz, above that seems to double it.
Should not 4kHz be "safe"?
hpst
thats funny. ive owned a samsung 40"b750 lcd tv maybe 6 years ago and the experience is still great. it uses ccfl lights. the last 6 years i tought it has something to do with the pwm. last minth i did some tests with my camera and oh lord it has pwm
ive owned several new tvs (sony lcd, samsung and lg plasma, philips lcd, samsung lcd and some projectors (led and dlp) up to 2000€ from sony for example...) because i wannted a bigger one, but they all produced eyestrain and headache. i am still using my samsung b750 and i hope it will never die.
for computer monitors ive found a very good one from benq with mva panel and flicker free technologie. for smarthones its the same. tested several models from sony, lg, samsung.... after 2 years ive found a realy good one from a small company from spain. they called (aquarius x5 plus).
hector Could you please share the model of benq monitor, please? I am heavily investing in lighting, computer tech to be able continue my IT job, while my good old Samsung monitor works.
23 days later
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hpst Even if I spend 700usd on this VA panel I still cannot use laptops (never found one with TRUE VA in it...just IPS variants using VA in the name, or mobile devices so it's just a more expensive CCFL situation limiting you to specific and less common stuff.
Yea, if AMVA is a possible solution, it seems that there are no laptops using this type panel.
And on the 32gk850g and it's variants, it seems that these displays are really bright and probably even too bright at the minimum setting. The original poster mentioned above that he is using it in Reader Mode with blue light blocking glasses because of the brightness. That for me sounds like a no go.
a month later
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Big thanks to f3likx
I ended up trying a couple of LG VA monitors. Both have been a major improvement. Not perfect eye fatigue relief for me, but much much better. I am thinking about trying out a Samung VA QLED just to see if there is any major difference to what LG offers. The two I have tried from LG are the 32UD60-B (4K) and the 32GK650F (1440). The panel quality is worse on the 4K, but I still prefer it for it's higher PPI for text sharpness. I am running it at 180% scaling and at a viewing distance of about 3 feet, which makes most everything of a very comfortable size.
Also what I have tried along the way is switching back to my IPS monitor, which ends up giving me eye fatigue sooner or later. And I tried out a newer gaming TN monitor, the Dell S2716DGR. It also gave me eye fatigue. To really find out if the IPS and TN were more fatiguing than VA, after eye fatigue began to really set in, I swapped in the VA, and the relief began right away, and within around an hour or so my eyes were back to feeling much better. And it is even better if I use the VA without having first used the IPS or TN monitors. I would say that the overall improvement is major, where instead of getting painful eye fatigue, my eyes eventually reach a tired level and stay there. It feels different than fatigue, where my eyes ache and my focus begins getting blurry. And the general look and feel on the eyes of VA is warm and soft. If I had to put a number on it, I guess I would say that using a VA is a 75% improvement, enough that I can get on with using a computer for text work and everything else without worrying about getting eye ache.
Any way, VA is definitely worth a shot.