Eyestrain solved after 6 years and multiple panels - LG 32gk850g

Seagull Monitors may have their own dithering function, particularly TN monitors which generally can't do 8-bit natively, so dither up from 6bit. Might be worth considering that there are different algorithms for dithering, I suspect I am more tolerant of some than others.

This confuses me further since the most safe displays people talk about are CCFL/TN. I have one safe 2006 Era CCFL/TN laptop panel...and one 2012 IPS/LED on an iPad 2...but every other panel of any type I've been able to try in the last year has caused strain. Every laptop panel I tried in various 2014-2015 Thinkpad's were IPS and 6bit natively, although were called "6+2" in the specs meaning 6 actual and 2 FRC as I understood it. I can't find a single panel of any type that makes those laptops usable and none of the brand new laptops I have tried in various shops don't strain me.

Seagull It sounds at once logical from a detached point of view...but also so hard to believe because it's hard to accept that things in the ms range could really take something from unnoticable to eye straining. It feels like when people argue over fps etc and is reaching. But like everything else we deal with unless we could objectively test it we can't know. It feels like display tech is out to kill us sometimes. Adding more and more noxious stuff for the sake of pretty.

Seagull I was thinking more about this and looked up the specs on my current "bad" panel in a Thinkpad..its an LG LP140WF3SPD1 and PWM free, and has a 25ms response time according to panelook.com but this laptop is still straining. I have put all sorts of panels in it from TN to IPS and everywhere from 5ms or so to 28-30ms with no success. So that feels like it can't be related to response time. Although as you know there are so many other factors who knows what combo is the trigger.

andc Anyway it's hard for me to believe that every panel with over 8ms response time is 8 bit since almost no notebook panel is faster than this as I browse Notebookcheck reviews.

I have spent a lot of time looking at panel specs on panelook.com and nearly all laptop panels I have seen are not true 8 bit panels but rather listed as 6+2 meaning 6 bits plus using dithering to get 2 more bits for a total of 8. For example here is the HD panel in a 2018 X1 Carbon http://www.panelook.com/B140HAN03.1_AUO_14.0_LCM_parameter_32138.html It just says "6+FRC" but many say explicitly "6+2 FRC"

Even the fancy HDR panel on the X1 Carbon 6th gen seems to not really be 12 bit HDR as it is advertised but rather 8+4. IF dithering is an issue then this is super relevant because most laptops are only 6 bit natively but being told to show 8-bits. But since laptop panels are "dumb" and require the gpu to tell them to dither I hope that means we can somehow force the output to the native color depth so the dithering doesn't happen.

But as usual it's confusing because IF dithering was the root cause it would seem logical to think an older 262k 6bit TN panel would be strain free and in my experience it is not...but to be fair I was unable to find one without PWM to avoid that variable. I don't know if that means those panels are still capable of dithering above 6 bits or if something else is going on.

andc Unfortunately that site doesnt list PWM use as its info comes from manufacturers and they don't want to share that with anyone it seems. "Flickering" is a broad term and PWM backlight flickering is entirely different than dithering/FRC, but who knows if the results with regard to strain is the same or not. My personal experience has been that PWM is irrelevant since using known PWM free panels causes the same amount of strain as ones with visible PWM. It surely can't be GOOD for us but I've never seen someone solve their strain by simply removing PWM.

andc For me at least it doesn't matter if they are PWM free and 8-bit. I have seen such panels at shops and they still strained me. The Dell XPS 15 is an example. That's what makes the dithering thing confusing because if that IS a major factor then why would it be happening on a true 8-bit panel? Does that mean dithering isn't a cause of strain? Does that mean it's trying to dither even higher to 10-bit etc?

JTL We are on the same page I think...I may have just expressed it wrongly. The laptop panel doesn't have built in dithering instructions or blue light/contrast/brightness whatever etc like a desktop monitor can so I called that a "dumb panel". As I understand it the panel's pixels have to "dither" to get the "super awesome vibrant" colors and thats what I meant by saying the gpu is making the panel dither. I understood the gpu is making it happen.

JTL Nearly every BIOS screen I have seen is on 100% brightness with no ability to reduce it so I can't stand looking at them just due to that...it's blindingly bright and hurts on anything but a super old dim CCFL. A 2014 Thinkpad I got for testing did surprisingly allow brightness controls to work in the BIOS but an update ruined that.

hpst I was just pointing out how even outside of a running OS with just a greyscale BIOS screen and the newer Nvidia cards, it's dithering.

JTL

What does that mean? Why in the world would a text only, pre OS utility be dithered? Does that mean its just hardwired into the gpu and whenever a computer is on its dithering regardless of what is displayed? I had some hope it was dithering because instructions in the OS/drivers were telling it to which would mean it might be possible to turn off. If its in firmware before the OS and drivers even get loaded how could we even affect it?