deepflame Teradici (a company that makes display over Ethernet extenders that use image compression which dithering interferes with) claims that the 10-bit color option on certain AMD graphics cards can disable dithering. So that's another datapoint.
Eyestrain solved after 6 years and multiple panels - LG 32gk850g
- Edited
This could be huge as an easy DIY test to see if dithering is or isn't an obvious problem. Do you have any more info on what gpus? There isn't any detail. I see there are linux instructions there which was a nice surprise as I thought "yeah it probably only works on Windows". If this would work on AMD Ryzen/Vega laptops etc it would be an easy test as there are a couple at Best Buy I could try in store if this Catalyst Center thing is normally installed...but they have locked down internet so no installing new stuff there.
Do you know if you can enable 10-bit monitor support, thus turning dithering off, on a Linux system with an AMD GPU/APU somehow? I could also live boot linux in a shop and try that as well. Worst case I would buy an AMD laptop and just return it if it didn't work...but I guess I need to know what GPUs/APUs this works for first. Does Nvidia have a similar process since there are a lot more Nvidia models out there to test?
- Edited
hpst I do plan to test this after I get the same/similar laptop as @deepflame after the capture card. Just a few more things to sort out with my desktop before I order it, nothing to do with you.
I'll write you a summery email tomorrow.
JTL Well if Catalyst isn't used anymore as you said its likely this is old news. I was hoping I could either with a swtich or config file do the 10-bit enabling on a modern system and test it. Excited for nothing I guess since a 2008 year Thinkpad being usable isn't really helpful to me even if it works on that.
JTL I have two of these Lenovo W500 now and one has gone bad. I think the reason was that I installed the Eizo drivers that came with the ColorEdge display I got. Now it even dithers on boot which the other good one does not.
I already tried to remove the battery and to reset the CMOS but I am not sure if it really helped. It may be that the Windows software made it bad again after boot.
Will test this again when time permits. ( I learned the hard way that color calibration has a big impact on dithering. this just shows me that colors and color depth play a big role in this. )
Just to let you know that there may be some things to look out for.
a month later
- Edited
andc i suspect that notebookcheck pwm reviews are highly untrustworthy.
i have read several reviews that dont match.
Also my Xperia XZ 2, in notebookcheck, says it has pwm until 28%. But i check that it has also beyond that point almost until 100% with my canon 550D at 1/4000. I also use a 1.4 aperture lens, so i can i have light to check it.
Above the 28% brightness what happens is that the phone seems to go to a higher pwm frequency.
Until 28% is 2khz, above that seems to double it.
I am waiting for my oscilloscope to arrive to check it properly.
So maybe some displays, change PWM frequency depending on brightness.
It would be good to know if all the Notebookcheck's reviewers use the same gear and procedures to test for PWM and what the max frequency that can be checked is. I've also seen different results on almost the same machines, but I thought that this is related to different panels or internal components. Actually such information should be provided by manufacturers, the same way as refresh rate, contrast, since it becomes a rather important factor and isn't so easy to test properly.
andc You record on your microscope with HTC 10 at 120 fps?
The leds change at different frequencies. For instance if you could record at 2000 khz you could watch them flicker at a different rate, if they would have pwm. For 120fps they change differently, if you record at 60fps also differently.
Maybe for the eye there is a worst range.
a month later
15 days later
tfouto
(Please excuse late reply, I haven't been keeping eye on the forum too often recently)
It may be hard to explain, but that's how I do it:
- Phone - I created a small construction on top of microscope so phone can be safely placed and aimed against focus of microscope. It's a wood "support" on which phone lays and this wood is glued using two-sided tape to microscope. I've also added two rubber bands to keep the phone in place and it works pretty well. If this information is not enough, I'll make a photo of how it looks
- Bottom - you adjust the shelf of microscope using rotating wheel, so basically screen that is going to be tested needs to be placed on this shelf (it's good to remove the metal holding parts to avoid scratches on surface) and its height needs to be adjusted to make sure that you / camera sees pixel correctly. Since it usually requires to put screen flat on around 7cm I use a thick book as a support on the other side and it's fine - both for phones and laptops / tablets. It's not a sturdy construction, so it's safer to do it on wide table, or floor.
tfouto Also my Xperia XZ 2, in notebookcheck, says it has pwm until 28%. But i check that it has also beyond that point almost until 100% with my canon 550D at 1/4000.
Have you ever used Iris? It would be nice to check that it effectively allows for any level of brightness without inducing PWM...
tfouto Until 28% is 2khz, above that seems to double it.
Should not 4kHz be "safe"?
hpst
thats funny. ive owned a samsung 40"b750 lcd tv maybe 6 years ago and the experience is still great. it uses ccfl lights. the last 6 years i tought it has something to do with the pwm. last minth i did some tests with my camera and oh lord it has pwm
ive owned several new tvs (sony lcd, samsung and lg plasma, philips lcd, samsung lcd and some projectors (led and dlp) up to 2000€ from sony for example...) because i wannted a bigger one, but they all produced eyestrain and headache. i am still using my samsung b750 and i hope it will never die.
for computer monitors ive found a very good one from benq with mva panel and flicker free technologie. for smarthones its the same. tested several models from sony, lg, samsung.... after 2 years ive found a realy good one from a small company from spain. they called (aquarius x5 plus).