hpst I need to catch up with this thread, but have you considered posing your queries directly do DASUNG? I talked to them last April when I was thinking of purchasing one of their displays. My questions were mostly about the logistics of importing the product without paying 500 bucks of taxes, and little technical. They replied very promptly and they seemed to care about the customer. Being a small company trying to serve a niche market, they could be interested in hearing your/our doubts and reading thru this forum. I think there is a lot of material for someone who wants to develop a technology that does not strain eyes.
Anyone with a Dasung Paperlike 3 yet? Report?
2 months later
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daniel_mate I think 3 = HD.
Pro is the old one.
I confirm. 3 = HD = third generation device; earlier version (2nd) = Pro.
The HD has a matte display, whereas the Pro has a clear lens screen (that is how the Dasung customer care called it, kinda glossy I guess) with the option of a protective film on top.
They also said a bit of dithering is noticeable, being caused by the dithering algorithm of the E-ink monitor itself.
Not sure how to take this, since I know nearly nothing about dithering nor I am an hardware person.
@hpst @daniel_mate @degen
I have the latest model HD and I get eye ball pain and spasms in my head, headache after using the screen for 30 mins- 1h. Even going to cinema is much much nicer than this eink monitor Not sure how it is possible and why it happens. I use it with 1100*825 resulotion A61 mode. Anyone else get eye strain from Dasung or other eink products? What settings do you use? I was testing it with both 40 HZ and 80 HZ and haven't noticed any difference pain wise. Also as already mentioned the HD resolution is useless as it is impossible to read anything, it is too tiny.
Anyway the lag doesn't bother me at all, as I would only use it at home for chatting or quick lookup of some information.
randomboolean I have the latest model HD and I get eye ball pain and spasms in my head, headache after using the screen for 30 mins- 1h.
Seriously? That is very bad news, as I was strongly considering making a move and purchasing.
Can you rule out the issues are due to the device you plug in? Have you tried other devices? Thanks!
AGI I have tested with 2 HP laptops - one from 2014 and the other 2018 model. Both give the same results. I will be testing with older devices sometime later and will update you about the results.
I think it is important to note that I am also testing my new phone Hisense A2 pro, which also gives me some kind of tension in the head. I am not sure why, because the response rate seems the same as on my yotaphone 2 eink side, which is perfect. The only difference between yota and hisense is that hisense is built with glare screen and the yota - plastic. Yota looks like picture or caricature, toy phone (as many people said to me) and the hisense feels more like real phone - just black and white. And yeah, on yota I was using a lot of black backgrounds and hisense is mostly white everywhere.
I think the problem might not be the refresh rate or flickering, since I cannot read books anymore too. I think I might became intolerant to high contrast or bright white in general. OR maybe my eyes got weaker and I need vision therapy, thus I found one of the best oftalmologist in the country and will ask to do in depth testing of convergence, suppression and everything else mentioned on this forum. Also I ordered pack of IRLEN overlays, which should help if my problem is contrast. Will update on this too.
randomboolean Thanks on your feedback.
Is Hisense A2 pro an e-ink smartphone?
What are IRLEN overlays?
Thanks!
AGI Well they help with what they call "Irlen syndrome". You can read all about it on their own page: https://irlen.com/what-is-irlen-syndrome/ . There are several posts on LEDSTRAIN about it https://ledstrain.org/d/19-welcome-to-led-strain/47 , https://ledstrain.org/d/188-your-health/175 , https://ledstrain.org/d/81-non-pwm-sufferer-narrowed-down-to-blue-light-sensitivity-or-overuse .
The overlays are just plastic matte elements which can be put on any screen, book, magazine, etc. to reduce or remove the strain due to sensitivity to some color. I found IRLEN syndrome when I searched for fluorescent lighting sensitivity. I have many of the IRLEN symptoms so I thought I might give a try to their overlays. I don't expect that it will do "magic" as these symptoms might be due to many other reasons.
Hisense A2 pro is double screen phone- first screen is normal colored one and the other - EINK. It is much much better than my yotaphone, not laggy, I can answer the phone by not switching sides, the contrast is perfect, the android mirroring function is very good, widget EINK screen has many functionalities. It is a shame that it gives some head tension. But I am going to try adding matte screen protector and later on IRLEN overlays, hope it will help.
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An e-ink screen giving eye strain? My first guess would be it's more to do with a coating or something applied
I find anti-reflective coating both on glasses and sometimes the thick coatings some glossy laptop screens (especially cheaper ones) get contributes to my eyestrain too.
JTL Thanks for the ideas. I will try ruling out the coating/reflection point very soon, but not sure how to test for dithering. Shouldn't dithering on eink be visible to the plain eye? I also saw this video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxTeT6umEwc which shows that dithering on e-ink is possible and is being done but it also is quite apparent to everyone. For example with Dasung, no matter if I set 40 HZ or 80 HZ and move the cursor very fast, I see only single occurrence of cursor on screen, just the place switching of cursor is a bit faster on 80 HZ.
So I think for me the problem is with eye teaming, coating, glare, white color in general, because books does not dither for sure...
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JTL c) possible dithering by the e-ink display (Unsure?)
According to DASUNG the E-ink monitor itself makes use of a dithering algorithm.
randomboolean the HD resolution is useless as it is impossible to read anything, it is too tiny.
Is not HD the main reason for purchasing the 3rd generation device instead of the 2nd? Do you know what the other improvements are going from Pro to HD? Is not there the option to switch between different resolutions as on standard monitors? Thanks on the Irlen syndrome, I will take a look!
The e-ink display on my yotaphone gives me eyestrain/nausea. I had previously used an e-reader for pdf reading successfully. I conclude it is the fuzzy look when e-ink screens animate movement, possibly similar to how dithering bothers me.
Onyx boox m92 - used a pearl screen and onyx's custom OS which they used prior to using android.
I don't know, but I do not think its due to hardware differences. The main difference is how I used the devices. With the Onyx e-reader I would spend 99% of the time staring at genuinely static text, and 1% of the time seeing the flash of the page refresh as I turned a page. With the yotaphone's e-ink screen I am scrolling, things are animating etc so I am constantly seeing these fuzzy partial refreshes. In my opinion, it triggers my symptoms in a similar fashion to dithering.
15 days later
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What was the reason why we only talk of Dasung, and Onyx was discarded?
https://onyxboox.com/boox_maxpro
Is it because of poorer quality, or because it works under Android with all the potential problems deriving from updates?