Hi,
I was completely desperate until I found this site. I do hope someone here will be able to help me find a solution so I will be able to use the computer again, without eye strain, nausea etc.

I am one of those people who have some visual sensitivity. Strobe lighting causes problems, and so do fluorescent tubes, high contrast stripes on someone's shirt, and so on. Things get worse at lower brightness conditions. As far as desktop displays are concerned, when I used a CRT, I was only able to work with a refresh rates of 100Hz or higher. Anything below this refresh rate was clearly flickering and caused eye strain, nausea, headaches, vertigo and other symptoms. The 100Hz refresh rate is of course not necessary regarding the LCD's. Yet, although I couldn't see the flickering, I realized that it caused eye strain and all other symptoms. At the time, someone figured out that LCDs employ other sources of flicker/ visual instability such as dithering, FRC etc., and helped me solve the problem by means of the right hardware (as well as setting software to reduce motion; and adapting contrast, brightness, colors, size etc.).

I was using Windows 7 home premium SP1(64-bit), 16-color depth, and had no eye strain or other symptoms and problems.

Hardware specifications:
Display (true 8-bit IPS) NEC MultiSync LCD2490WUXi2, 1920x1200, DVI-D cable
Motherboard ASUS P8H77-M / CSM
Processor Intel i5-3470 CPU@ 3.20GHz 6MB 1155 QUAD
RAM 8GB (2x4 DDR3)
GPU Asus Nvidia GeForce GTX 650 1GB
I am not a gamer, nor do I watch videos. Yet, for some reason in all previous computers, the onboard Graphics or simple Graphic cards did present the 1920x1200 resolution, but the dedicated GPU improved something, and helped me avoid the eye strain and other symptoms. I do not know why, but that happened several times.

Recently had a clean install of windows 10 on an SSD hard drive that was added to the computer.
Since this Windows 10 (64-bit) 32-bit color mode, I can hardly look at the display. I have eye strain, nausea, headaches, and all other symptoms.

In order to try to solve the problem I tried to read some information, and I mention some of the information here, just in case it may be relevant. Since I lack any technical background, I probably did not understand things correctly. I apologize for writing some nonsense here (I hope it will at least be amusing.).

My display is a true 8-bit IPS. Maybe I am wrong, but I thought this implies that it should be able to deal with a 32-bit color depth without FRC or other "tricks".

Still, is it possible that the problems are somehow related to the fact that Windows 10 supports only the 32-bit color depth and does not support the 16-bit color depth I was using before?
Is it possible the color depth increase from 16-bit to 32-bit causes some 'overload' which in turn leads some part of the computer/ display to perform some "trick" such as PWM, changed blanking, dithering etc.? Can this color depth change lead to some 'overload' in the data transfer from the GPU to the display, which in turn leads to those issues?

The display is connected with a DVI-D-Dual link cable. However, according to NEC it does not support a dual-link cable, and actually uses it as a single link cable. I have read that DVI-D-single link works perfectly for up to 1920x1080, but that when it concerns 1920x1200, it can only work by changing the blanking interval or something like that. If this is the case, can this cause the problems?

The display's native resolution is 1920x1200 60Hz. For some reason, the OSD says the refresh rate is 60HZ, but the GPU indicates 59. Even when I choose the option of 1920x1200 60Hz, it does not do anything. It stays 59Hz.

In sum:
I do not know how to solve the problem and I don't even know what causes the problem (since windows 10).

I do not know what currently causes my problems (since windows 10): is because of dithering, FRC, PWM, Blanking, FPS, refresh rate, or some other terms I am also not familiar with?

Is this something that can be resolved in the software? should I replace my GPU, the Motherboard, the display (or that the only solution is replacing my head…🙂?

Until I found this site, I was desperate. I am not familiar with all these technical issues, and I really hope someone here will be able to help me.

Thanks!

    Windows 10 absolutely introduces a new type of flicker or difficulty. It started with the "Creator's Update" which was the second update in 2016. It is "better" recently, with releases 1809 and 1903, but not perfect. The only version of Windows 10 that functios like Windows 7 did... is 1511, the final 2015 release. Some people have found that the first 2016 release was ok also.

    Whilst others report problems with windows 10, I was unable to find any evidence of dithering when testing due to the operating system alone. Not doubting others, but its something to bear in mind.

    When doing the same testing I found that my GTX660 does use temporal dithering (along with every other windows 10 compatible card I tested), so I imagine its quite likely your GTX650 does aswell. Though, potentially it didn't when your computer was running windows 7 16bit mode. The only option I found that did not have temporal dithering was intel's integrated graphics. I have been told that 59hz and 60hz are the same, that 59hz is short for 59.99999hz.

    Best advice I can give is to try a few different things and see how you go, and expect it to often not make sense. For example, I found going from my gtx660 which dithered, to intel integrated graphics which does not, to actually make my own problems worse. I think I'd simply gotten so used to it, that it was uncomfortable without.

      Seagull I don't think Windows 10 "dithers". But there's something about their new "composition spaces" overlay system that makes my eyes want to crawl out of my head. I can demonstrate it quite plainly by queueing up the 16xx update on my laptop, letting it install, going OW OW OW and rolling back to 1511 and going "AHHHHHH".

        Thanks. Unfortunately, installing 1511 is not an option for me.
        Is the 8-bit IPS display indeed supposed to be able to deal with 32-bit color depth without any of those things which I call 'tricks' (changed Blanking, dithering, FRC, PWM, reduced refresh rate) etc?
        Is it possible that as long as I was using 16-bit color depth, the various components (the GPU, DVI-D-single link cable, the display, the motherboard, the bios or whatever other part wereable to cope with the 1920x1200 resolution with 60Hz, but thatthe 32-bit color depth is in some way too much for one of the components, and that this results in some 'trick' such as changed blanking, FRC, dithering , or something else?

        • Gurm replied to this.

          NST17 that's sort of a loaded question. In general, yes. True 8-bit screens should ... SHOULD ... be able to display 32-bit color without problems/tricks/compromises. In practice, however, this is seldom the case.

          However, in your particular situation, Windows itself is adding some unpleasantness.

            Is windows 10 doing more than forcing me to use the 32-bit color depth and is there a way to solve this with either software of hardware?

            Yes, it is. And no, there isn't. At least not that we know of.

            I just realized that the forum's name is LEDstrain, but as far as I know my display does not have a led backlight. Does that imply that there is still hope for me/ my display?
            What is it that Windows 10 does differently which causes the problem? (I may not understand the answer, but it may possibly help in figuring out what's next).
            Is there any solution that involves replacing hardware so that it won't have to do those 'tricks'?

            Thanks

              NST17 LEDStrain because a lot of our problems started when LED backlighting was being rolled out and widely adopted 2008-2012, but actually a lot happened during that period as GPU, drivers, OS display technology etc changed a lot as well, so LED technology is not the beginning nor the end of our problems.

                Is it possible to figure out whether my hardware would have been able to cope with a 32-bit color depth on Windows 7 without using 'tricks'?

                NST17 Welcome to the forum.

                I have recently bit the bullet and bought a Dell U2419H and Intel NUC (NUC8i7BEH) which is running the latest Windows 10 Pro + Latest Intel Graphics Drivers.

                I have been using the machine consistently for the last two weeks. I wanted to allow that much time to get over any possible placebo affects and also rigorously use the machine to see what would happen if I used it 8+hours a day. The side effects were quite profound; I noticed after day 1-2 that I was blinking less than usual, my eyes had trouble focusing to distances when going outside, feelings of tunnel-vision, also looking at my reflection showed my pupils were dilated a LOT. I did have tension headaches for the first few days, however this actually subsided. I finally connected my known good desktop to the U2419H 2 days ago, and within 5 minutes I immediately felt relief - the tight band around my head had been released 🙂. I've been on my old desktop for the last 2 days and can now compare and contrast how I felt on the new NUC. It almost felt like I was being drugged, and that's not hyperbole.

                The positive thing at least in my experience is that this new Dell monitor doesn't cause much strain, no different to my U2414H I bought a few years ago. It clearly is the OS/Driver causing the issues (in most cases) and not the display.

                As to the where/why/how it's happening, I don't know. If anybody here can get a VMWare licence from their employer or find a way to obtain a copy (for evaluation purposes) then it should be straight forward to set up a host/client using PCoIP (which works at the pixel level) and document activity between good/bad machines. There is a log viewer available from one of the VMWare developers which has a section for pixel data, perhaps we can reach out to him and ask if different styles of dithering (spatio-temporal, temporal) can be measured using his tool.

                Aside from a very expensive capture setup, it could be another approach to consider.

                    I suspect subpixel rendering, or some other tomfoolery. People have found relief (not consistently) with color profiles, switching display ports, etc. and that indicates that it's a rendering issue.

                    14 days later

                    NST17 i just bought 2 striped shirts. very comfortable, but I cant look at myself in the mirror XD

                      6 months later

                      Seagull Whilst others report problems with windows 10, I was unable to find any evidence of dithering when testing due to the operating system alone. Not doubting others, but its something to bear in mind.

                      if it was similarto the system Gurm mentioned here, I could see why that'd be your finding.

                          JTL

                          I have testing a much newer system, using a 5th generation i5's integrated graphics. So its difficult to draw any conclusions. Will be testing a 8th gen one soon.

                            6 months later

                            diop If anybody here can get a VMWare licence from their employer or find a way to obtain a copy (for evaluation purposes) then it should be straight forward to set up a host/client using PCoIP (which works at the pixel level) and document activity between good/bad machines. There is a log viewer available from one of the VMWare developers which has a section for pixel data, perhaps we can reach out to him and ask if different styles of dithering (spatio-temporal, temporal) can be measured using his tool.

                            if I understand correctly, you suggest using vmvare as a client-side. But what will be the server-side? Is PCoIP a purely software thing? I thought it was semi-hardware

                            • diop replied to this.

                                glvn if I understand correctly, you suggest using vmvare as a client-side. But what will be the server-side? Is PCoIP a purely software thing? I thought it was semi-hardware

                                It used to be. Here's some info from a quick search..

                                Teradici created the PCoIP protocol and debuted it in 2007. Initially, PCoIP was a hardware-based desktop virtualization product designed around a blade server that rendered desktop images, and a client device that somewhat resembled a hockey puck. The client device was equipped with a proprietary chip that enabled the use of PCoIP communications between the client and server.
                                PCoIP initially depended on proprietary hardware, but Teradici eventually created a software version of the PCoIP protocol. Teradici licensed the software to VMware in 2008. VMware used PCoIP to deliver virtual desktops with what was then called VMware View, now Horizon.

                                So in theory with VMWare software and a license, you can 'roll your own' VMWare server/client setup and then with third-party tools, analyse the PCoIP data, which is transmitting the desktop information at the pixel level. Installs could be performed on good/bad machines and it should be possible to see if temporal dithering is used (more bandwidth than usual being transmitted or more pixels being delivered).

                                The end result would hopefully show differences between good/bad OS & Drivers, and as the pixels are being transmitted 1:1, the movement/dithering algorithm should be able to be detected. This won't help with bad physical outputs, but would in my view be something on paper to show to M$/Apple, "this OS and Driver is comfortable but this other OS and Driver isn't because of difference in dithering/pixels, and here is the PCoIP data which proves the pixels are using X dithering algorithm."

                                  dev