Gglvn
- 20 Jan
- Joined Sep 22, 2020
- Edited
I switched GPU to gtx1060, cleared CMOS removing battery, and pain stopped
after switching. besides the feeling of pain, do you see any visual difference in the image, banding for example?
My 9600kf have 906ECh cpuid and AEh microcode,
even earlier you wrote:
"the build number is very important: 1809 LTSC 17763.1098, the next 2 processor updates (kb4589208 and kb5035849) will bring back your eye strain"
https://ledstrain.org/d/2712-windows-with-colorcontrol-still-makes-me-eye-strain/13bios F2 contains MicroCode 0xAE for 906EC but Windows can update MicroCode
(in particular, kb4589208 updates MicroCode to 0xCA for 906EC)my guess: if one installation of kb4589208 ONLY adds a eye strain, perhaps the MicroCode version is ONE of the factors ??
After that I found my benq with DVI connection is very calm and after CRU checking, found all blocks are empty, so using DP cable I reproduse DVI condition to get calm monitor behavior
If I understood you correctly, the same monitor connected via DP causes less eye strain with the EDID modification than the same monitor/DP but without the EDID modification?
100% safe grapfic card with giga z390d (F2 bios of 2019.10.15): white color asus gtx1060 dual, GC BIOS is 86.06.0E.00.41, connection via HDMI to DVI cable
HDMI on VGA side ?
in nvidia control panel such connection is displayed as DVI or HDMI?
I'm trying to understand: does eye strain depend on the type of monitor interface (in a potentially safe combination z390/1060/17763.1098)I found gtx1060 and 1660s (which is safe according to this forum)
unfortunately not all 1660s are safe (
https://ledstrain.org/d/1524-eye-strain-with-new-gpu/79
"Before that i use gtx 1660s inno3d twinx2 gddr6 SAMSUNG and this one is the best. No eyestrain at all.
Then i use gtx 1660s inno3d twinx2 gddr6 micron and hyenix and make me feel eyestrain."there was also a discussion on this forum about the safe variety of 970, the general conclusion that I remember is that only one specific variety is safe (Gigabyte G1 Gaming 970 version 1.0) not all Gigabyte 970 (
I also tested whole week miniPC (13700h + Iris XE 96EU) with same benq HDMI-DVI-D cable, seems okay, similar to z390d+gtx1060
i5 12600k + UHD 770 ) - all is OK
is there a difference in eye strain between these configurations?
You know, I exported all registry settings to find difference after changing 2070s to 1060 and found nothing
and have you experimented with DitherRegistryKey in registry ?
- Edited
- Software also matters, I'm using Win10 1809 17763.1098 with updates blocked
You wrote earlier:
"Here is my safe workstation: 9600kf/Gigabyte z390d(F2)/Asus 2070s(466.63)/win10 LTSC 1809 build 17763.1098"
if Windows version is so important, can you specify some subtleties:
1) Windows 1809_LTSC or 1809_"regular" ?
2) build 17763.1098 is obtained immediately after a "clean" installation?
(if so, could you please write the full name of the .iso image and its MD5/SHA checksum)I can't find the original Microsoft LTSC_1809_build_17763.1098 image
I'm installing the initial LTSC_1809(build_17763.316) + kb4538461(Cumulative Update March 2020) = LTSC_1809_build_17763.1098
I don't know that these are equivalent actions...what CPUID does your 9600kf have? 906EC or 906ED? (you can look in AIDA64 https://download.aida64.com/aida64engineer735.zip)
what is the MICROCODE version AFTER loading Windows? (you can also look in AIDA64)- Using CRU, you can remove the monitor's color data to allow Windows to use the "default" color space without transforming.
Can you elaborate a bit on "remove monitor color data"? Is this related to edit EDID info ?
When I sit in my z390+rtx2070s, pain between brows begins after 2 hours. I switched GPU to gtx1060, cleared CMOS removing battery, and pain stopped
Do I understand correctly that z390+2070s is easier on the eyes than z690+2070s(same)? But z390+1060 is more easier than z390+2070s? Have the VGA drivers version been changed?
What is the full name of the 1060 model(+BIOS ver)?What kind of problems you are experiencing with windows/nvidia? I have 3070 super and VG27AQ monitor. 8bit set by default in nvidia settings and I don't have any issues with dithering or so,
Can I ask for more details about the computer configuration?
1) motherboard model name ?
2) monitor connection type DVI/HDMI/DP ?
3) windows version/build
4) GPU driver version
5) full "3070 super" model namebuild number very important: windows 10 1809 LTSC 17763.1098, next 2 CPU updates (kb4589208 and kb5035849) will give you eye-strain back
Sorry for asking again, but does installing just one update kb4589208 cause eye-strain problems?
kb4589208 a very simple update and actually only contains a microcode update for the CPU. It would be useful to clarify whether the processor microcode version is related to the eye-strain problemOr does the eye-strain problem only occur when two updates (kb4589208 and kb5035849) are combined?
- Edited
1809 LTSC 17763.1098, next 2 CPU updates (kb4589208
Are you using an integrated Intel video card or a discrete one? in situations where eye-strain is affected kb4589208.
What version of CPU microcode is currently running on your system(and CPU model)? (kb4589208 is update microcode to 0xCA on Coffee Lake system, for example)
An "Studio" called version of the very last driver. I´m unaware of what exactly was causing my issues. But once I installed this studio driver my desktop computer stopped giving me discomfort and making me exhausted while using it,
Can you clarify the exact driver version? 551.61 ?
Windows version and build number?
processor and motherboard model?
monitor connection type(dp/hdmi) and monitor model?
Do you use any additional settings other than installing the last "studio" driver?
What is the full model name of your video card? 1650 ..??Thank you
- Edited
Intel UHD Graphics 617
21.20.16.4475 driver version is NOT suitable for this chip (UHD617)
But it is suitable for integrated graphics of Intel desktop processors 6xxx 7xxx
the configuration is already outdated, but not so rare. It would be interesting to see the results of combining 22h2 + UHD5xx/6xx graphics + this OLD driver version + dithering.exe + external monitor.I used this one: https://www.deltacast.tv/products/free-software/e-edid-editor
Thanks for the link
but I still don’t understand how to use editing EDID to present an 8bit monitor as 10bit (for example)So when I tried ryzen 5600g + 6 bit-frc CCFL panel in win10 with zoomed gradient and ditherig I could see changes to the picture across all ditherig settings.
Can I ask for more details about the computer configuration?
- motherboard model name
- monitor connection type VGA/DVI/HDMI/DP ?
- windows 10 version/build
- GPU driver version
- ditherig.exe version (2,1 ??)
and the most important question: is there a difference in eye strain from different settings ditherig.exe ?
I'm bewildered how what appears to me as two different LCD panels can "exist" within one laptop and how much JUST software can completely change perceived display quality.
Congratulations, it looks like you have found your GOOD configuration
If you write down your GOOD configuration briefly:
1) Windows 10 22H2(19045.3570)
2) Intel UHD Graphics 615 (6xx most likely too)
3) OLD video driver 24.20.100.6222 (https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=24.20.100.6222)
4) ditherig.exe (version??) with "disable all dithering" (https://kawamoto.no-ip.org/henteko/myapp_en.html)
5) internal MacBook Air LCD panel
is everything right?do you see the difference on the test sample "gradient/banding" ? http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php
macOS vs Windows 10 22H2could you check your configuration with this driver from 2016?
https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=21.20.16.4475
but only if you have an full image of your good system, to ensure that changes can be rolled back- Edited
I have restored my PC to an image from 2 weeks ago and the problem vanished. I had not updated my PC before this since May
could you provide a complete list of installed updates? as of May image, when the problem does not appear
For example, I’m very interested in whether you have the update kb3125574 installed? since in terms of the number of changes it may well be called SP2 )
were there any other changes compared to May? (driver update?)For me, with this method I am having no issues with 22H2 at all, it works amazingly with these old 2018 Intel drivers on UHD 615
@si_edgey described a similar situation
https://ledstrain.org/d/152-temporal-dithering-sensitivity-my-solutionIntel HD 630 driver version: 21.20.16.4475 (from 2016, more recent drivers cause symptoms)
It seems that the old version of the driver is the key issue (but dithering.exe is also mentioned)
I also tried intel igpu+6bit-frc external display over hdmi and I find out that when ditherig is on (all dithering disabled) that bands when watching gradient are not so much visible as compared to laptop panels.
What full model name was the external display?
It would be interesting to see the results of dithering.exe + igpu on a real 8-bit panel (like Gigabyte M32Q)...Enabling color management (.icm color profile) also affects the smoothness of gradients - it worsens them. I have long come across an assumption that enabling the color profile automatically turns on dithering on ATI/AMD gpu drivers. In any case, it is better to check whether you are using color management, as this may further affect the smoothness of the gradients.
- Edited
Dynabook N156BGA-EA3; HP 255 G5 BOE06A5; E6520 LTN56HT01; Lenovo E440 LP140WH8-TPD1
I wonder what you can do with those data :-).https://www.panelook.com/modelsearch.php?keyword=N156BGA-EA3
https://www.panelook.com/PT156WHM-N10__15.6__overview_42420.html
LTN56HT01 ??
https://www.panelook.com/modelsearch.php?keyword=LP140WH8-TPD1
at first glance, all these panels are 6bit
26 x 26 x 26=262144 (262K colors)
at a minimum, this means that such panels are not capable of displaying 8-bit color without tricks like dithering
and we return again to the questions: does dither affect strain? how to disable dithering guaranteed? What samples can be used to verify that dithering is disabled?I continued my experiment at Windows 7 Classic :
(6bit+frc HP 27es HDMI) in combination with ATI HD4850 + reg tweak "HDMI_DisableDither"=dword:00000001 give banding on the sample http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php
(6bit+frc HP 27es DVI) in combination with ATI HD4850 + reg tweak "TMDS_DisableDither"=dword:00000001 NOT give banding on the sample WTF ?in the right part Ditherig is on (banding visible):
By "Dithering is on" you mean:
dithering.exe launched with the "temporal" option is selected ?
or Dithering.exe launched with the "disable all dithering function" option is selected ?
Do you feel a difference in eye strain?- Edited
In the case of Ditherig + Intel these laptops
in the case of a laptop, it is impossible to unambiguously determine the model of the LCD panel based on the laptop model
AIDA64??Upon enabling Ditherig I could see the effect immediately.
This is true, dithering.exe works through PCI control registers and its action occurs immediately. unlike discrete AMD drivers, which are controlled(controlled??) by values in the registry and changes require re-reading these values (reboot is an option)
Viewsonic VA2223-H have 6bit+frc panel https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/adb31ce7for ati/amd gpu there are currently two known ways to control dithering:
1) a key value in the windows registry (works on hd4850 + win7) and not the fact that it works with modern drivers
(this method is used in SetupCLI.exe and RadeoMod)
2) dithering.exe of the latest version which should work with AMD GPUs(through PCI control registers??), but not with discrete AMD video cards, as I understand this situation
sorry for my terrible english- Edited
Philips 346B1C
https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/ef821b52
the panel in this monitor is true 8-bit (not 6bit+frc)in my case:
1) using an true 8-bit panel(Philips 243v DVI) in combination with Intel HD630 + dithering.exe does not give banding on the sample http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php if temporal dithering disabled,
but it starts to flicker a little in general if temporal dithering enable
2) using not true 8-bit panel (6bit+frc HP 27es HDMI) in combination with ATI/AMD HD4850 + reg tweak "HDMI_DisableDither"=dword:00000001 give banding on the sample
"HDMI_DisableDither"=dword:00000000 not give banding on the sample(after restart), but it seems to add fatigue to the eyesMy next dumb guess is this: perhaps eye fatigue appears from a combination of TWO independent phenomena:
A) dithering of the monitor panel itself (in the case of 6bit+frc)
B) dithering the output signal of the video card