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NST17

Hi,

I am still struggling with my monitor / Win 11/ GTX1650, which causes me nausea, eye strain etc.

At a certain stage I wasn't comfortable with the Win10 computer on which I used to work without any issues. (probably because my eyes were exhausted from all those attempts).  I have not tried to install Win 10 yet (I need someone else to do it because besides the fact that I am not familiar with how to do it, I cannot look at the display when it is in safe mode or DOS etc).

I have a computer with GeForce GTX650, with Windows 10.

I have a computer with GeForce GTX1650, with Windows 11.

Both have the following display: NEC Multisync LCD2490WUXI2, 1920x1200, refresh rate 60 or 59.9 Hz, true 8-bit.  Its most advanced connection is DVI-D. The most recent driver is from 2009. OSD settings are 100% brightness and 54% contrast.

Anyhow, I tried several things.

1.      I switched between the 2 displays (on 100% brightness one is brighter than the other which is a little yellowish) and the 2 cables.

2.      I use Windows scaling 125% on both computers. I tried changing the scaling to 150% or not using any scaling (100%).

3.      I tried to connect a different type of monitor to the Win11 computer: LG Flatron IPS236V. 1920x1080, refresh rate 60Hz, 6-bit+FRC. This monitor is usually connected to another Win11 computer, without a dedicated GPU. Usually, I can look at it for a short while but not for long. I tried connecting this display to my Win11 computer, either to the iGPU or to the GTX1650. This did not work well for me. I cannot say whether it was similar or worse compared to when it is connected to its usual Win11 computer.

4.      I tried to take a photo of the monitor with the various above noted combinations. I used my cellphone for taking pictures.  I wonder whether the following is informative: 

Although I was taking a picture (not video) of the monitor that showed a static picture, the photograph shows some sort of faint horizontal lines or stripes. While taking the picture, I looked at my cellphone display and it looked as if those faint horizontal lines were moving vertically.  In a way, it reminded me of the effect that may be seen when you look at a TV that shows a TV that is turned on.

These horizontal lines appeared every time I tried to take a photograph of the NEC monitor, but not when I took a photograph of the LG monitor. 

I cannot see the lines when I look at the monitor.  However, I mention it because I realize that there may be effects that cause problems even if I am not aware to their existence / can't see them (for example, dithering, FRC).

NEC1920x1200+ Win11 + GTX1650 àLINES

NEC1920x1200+ Win10 + GTX650  à No lines

LG1920x1080 + Win11+ iGPU  àNo lines

LG1920x1080 +Win11 + GTX1650 àNo lines

At the moment I cannot connect the NEC monitor to Win11 iGPU (because I do not have the HDMI-to DVI-D cable yet).

The NEC monitor has these lines on WIN11 (GTX1650), but not on WIN10 (GTX650).

The same WIN11 + GTX1650 did not produce lines on the LG monitor.

Does the above information give any indication as to why connecting my display to the Win11 +GTX1650 leads to nausea, eye strain etc?

Is it still possible to buy windows 10?

moonpie Do you mean I have to turn off the Windows11 125% scaling? and if so, is there another way to be able to see properly? (I use the Windows scaling because increading text size is not sufficient, as everything elese remains too small).

moonpie Thanks. I am not sure I understand what you wrote. My previous computer also had a dGPU and I used Windows10 125% scaling. I had no problems. Now with the new dGPU and Windows 11 125% scaling I have a problem. Is it possible that Windows 10 scaling does not cause problems whereas Windows 11 scaling does?

moonpie Thanks. I use a dGPU becuase the screen is 1920x1200 and I have to connect it with a DVI-D cable. I was afraid that using a cable that is not DVI-D to DVI-D would cause additional problems. Was I wrong?

Sunspark What is logical scaling? Is this the same as Window's scaling? I use Windows scaling on 125%. I had no issues with this on my previous Win 10 computer. But I do have problems on my new Win 11 computer.

Since the display is good but quite old, I would not like to invest in additional hardware, especially if it is not certain that it would work. Therefore, in case I do not manage to find a solution with the current display, I would appreciate some advice regarding a new display.

I know I should look for a display with no dithering, no flicker, no PWM, no FRC, and preferably high brightness.

Is refresh rate important and if so, what refresh rate would be sufficient (I am not a gamer)?

Since my vision is far from perfect I need the text to have reasonable size. (currently I have a 24inch 1920x1200 display and I use windows scaling (125%). I assume that this implies that I should look for a display with 1920X1200 or 1920X1080. Is that right? Is there any reason to prefer one of these over the other?

I currently have a 24 inch display. It is big enough for me. Is there a reason to prefer a 27 inch?

What other specs should I take into consideration?

Thanks for any advice

moonpie

Thanks. I needed the 100 refresh rate on CRTs. I have been using this display with its 60 Hz refresh rate without any problems on my previous computer. Is it possible that I was able to use it on on the old computer with GTX 650 +Win 10 and that in spite of that, I cannot manage with the new computer with GTX1650+Win 11? If that is the case, what may be causing the problem?

simplex

Thanks. The iGPU is UFD 730. Is that supposed to work without dithering? The display is old and its most advanced connection is DVI-D. I do not know whether I can find cables that make this connection possible, but even if there is such a cable, would't that be another possible source of visuall issues?

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

My previous computer had Nvidia Geforce GTX 650.

Thanks

simplex

Althogh Win 10 may indeed be better, I'm afraid it would be a short term solution because Microsoft will no longer support Win 10 toward the end of the year. That is why I hope to be able to use Win 11

Hi,

I hope you will be able to give me some advice regarding settings I should use, or advice about a new display.  I apologize for lacking relevant technical knowledge.

Like many others, I have some visual sensitivity. Fluorescent tubes, strobe lighting, contrast stripes or CRTs with refresh rates below 100 Hz all cause eye strain, nausea, headaches, vertigo and other symptoms. Things get worse at lower brightness conditions. I have an old display which was fine, but I am not able to use if on my Windows 11 computer. I can't find the right settings and I am afraid that I need to buy a new display.  In case that is the solution, I would appreciate it if you could give me some advice as to what I should be looking for.

At the time of CRT displays, I was not able to use low refresh rate (I saw the flicker).  I had a display and a GPU allowing 100Hz or more and that was fine.

When LCD arrived, I did not see any flicker, but I got nausea, headaches etc. after looking at these screens.  Eventually, I realized the cause was temporal dithering. 

I got a high-end display NEC MultiSync LCD2490Wuxi2. I did not need its color calibration etc, but this display was true 8-bit and did not have temporal dithering.

I have been using this display since 2011 on Windows 7 and on windows 10 without any problems. 

Lately, I had to buy a new computer. This computer has Windows 11. I am hardly able to use it because I get nausea, headaches etc.  I can hardly look at the display.  The display is connected to the computer with a DVI-D cable. 

I have tried to change various settings, both at the windows 11 settings and through the Nvidia control panel (using both the gamer driver and the studio driver). However, I can't figure out how to get it right.  Moreover, it seems that settings keep changing by themselves.  I thought this is impossible and ridiculous, but then noticed other people complaining about this too.

I also read that this may be due to the incompatibility of the display's driver. Unfortunately, the most recent driver for my display is dated 2009. 

I know people vary regarding their sensitivities. Therefore, I should note I have to be in a room with strong light, and use a screen with high brightness and good contrast.

I do not use the computer for gaming. Mostly for office and browsing. 

I would appreciate it if you could help me:

1.       Is there a way to use this display without dithering, PWM or other issues that may cause nausea, headaches etc?

2.      If that is not possible, what should I look for in my new display?

a.      At the time, IPS was best for me, but since then, other technologies have evolved which I am not familiar with. Should I still look for IPS?

b.      Flicker-free? Some displays are sold as flicker free, but are they indeed flicker free or may some people be more sensitive and still experience this flickering?

c.      No PWM, no FRC

d.      Additional characteristics?

Any advice would be most welcome.

Thanks!

Below are some specifications.

Processor                13th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-13500   2.50 GHz

Installed RAM           32.0 GB (31.7 GB usable)

System type              64-bit operating system, x64-based processor

Pen and touch              No pen or touch input is available for this display

Motherboard

BaseBoard Manufacturer      ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC.

BaseBoard Product   PRIME B760M-A WIFI D4

BaseBoard Version    Rev 1.xx

GPU     Nvidia GeForce GTX1650

Driver Version:             32.0.15.7216

Display:            NEC LCD2490WUXI2

Desktop mode             1920x1200, 59.95Hz

Active signal mode     1920x1200, 59.95Hz

Variable refresh mode:           Not spported

Bit depth                         8-bit

Color format                 RGB

Color space                  SDR

Windows 11 Home

Version         24H2

Installed on   ‎31/‎12/‎2024

OS build        26100.2894

Experience      Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.26100.36.0

Is it possible to figure out whether my hardware would have been able to cope with a 32-bit color depth on Windows 7 without using 'tricks'?

I just realized that the forum's name is LEDstrain, but as far as I know my display does not have a led backlight. Does that imply that there is still hope for me/ my display?
What is it that Windows 10 does differently which causes the problem? (I may not understand the answer, but it may possibly help in figuring out what's next).
Is there any solution that involves replacing hardware so that it won't have to do those 'tricks'?

Thanks

Is windows 10 doing more than forcing me to use the 32-bit color depth and is there a way to solve this with either software of hardware?

Thanks. Unfortunately, installing 1511 is not an option for me.
Is the 8-bit IPS display indeed supposed to be able to deal with 32-bit color depth without any of those things which I call 'tricks' (changed Blanking, dithering, FRC, PWM, reduced refresh rate) etc?
Is it possible that as long as I was using 16-bit color depth, the various components (the GPU, DVI-D-single link cable, the display, the motherboard, the bios or whatever other part wereable to cope with the 1920x1200 resolution with 60Hz, but thatthe 32-bit color depth is in some way too much for one of the components, and that this results in some 'trick' such as changed blanking, FRC, dithering , or something else?

Hi,
I was completely desperate until I found this site. I do hope someone here will be able to help me find a solution so I will be able to use the computer again, without eye strain, nausea etc.

I am one of those people who have some visual sensitivity. Strobe lighting causes problems, and so do fluorescent tubes, high contrast stripes on someone's shirt, and so on. Things get worse at lower brightness conditions. As far as desktop displays are concerned, when I used a CRT, I was only able to work with a refresh rates of 100Hz or higher. Anything below this refresh rate was clearly flickering and caused eye strain, nausea, headaches, vertigo and other symptoms. The 100Hz refresh rate is of course not necessary regarding the LCD's. Yet, although I couldn't see the flickering, I realized that it caused eye strain and all other symptoms. At the time, someone figured out that LCDs employ other sources of flicker/ visual instability such as dithering, FRC etc., and helped me solve the problem by means of the right hardware (as well as setting software to reduce motion; and adapting contrast, brightness, colors, size etc.).

I was using Windows 7 home premium SP1(64-bit), 16-color depth, and had no eye strain or other symptoms and problems.

Hardware specifications:
Display (true 8-bit IPS) NEC MultiSync LCD2490WUXi2, 1920x1200, DVI-D cable
Motherboard ASUS P8H77-M / CSM
Processor Intel i5-3470 CPU@ 3.20GHz 6MB 1155 QUAD
RAM 8GB (2x4 DDR3)
GPU Asus Nvidia GeForce GTX 650 1GB
I am not a gamer, nor do I watch videos. Yet, for some reason in all previous computers, the onboard Graphics or simple Graphic cards did present the 1920x1200 resolution, but the dedicated GPU improved something, and helped me avoid the eye strain and other symptoms. I do not know why, but that happened several times.

Recently had a clean install of windows 10 on an SSD hard drive that was added to the computer.
Since this Windows 10 (64-bit) 32-bit color mode, I can hardly look at the display. I have eye strain, nausea, headaches, and all other symptoms.

In order to try to solve the problem I tried to read some information, and I mention some of the information here, just in case it may be relevant. Since I lack any technical background, I probably did not understand things correctly. I apologize for writing some nonsense here (I hope it will at least be amusing.).

My display is a true 8-bit IPS. Maybe I am wrong, but I thought this implies that it should be able to deal with a 32-bit color depth without FRC or other "tricks".

Still, is it possible that the problems are somehow related to the fact that Windows 10 supports only the 32-bit color depth and does not support the 16-bit color depth I was using before?
Is it possible the color depth increase from 16-bit to 32-bit causes some 'overload' which in turn leads some part of the computer/ display to perform some "trick" such as PWM, changed blanking, dithering etc.? Can this color depth change lead to some 'overload' in the data transfer from the GPU to the display, which in turn leads to those issues?

The display is connected with a DVI-D-Dual link cable. However, according to NEC it does not support a dual-link cable, and actually uses it as a single link cable. I have read that DVI-D-single link works perfectly for up to 1920x1080, but that when it concerns 1920x1200, it can only work by changing the blanking interval or something like that. If this is the case, can this cause the problems?

The display's native resolution is 1920x1200 60Hz. For some reason, the OSD says the refresh rate is 60HZ, but the GPU indicates 59. Even when I choose the option of 1920x1200 60Hz, it does not do anything. It stays 59Hz.

In sum:
I do not know how to solve the problem and I don't even know what causes the problem (since windows 10).

I do not know what currently causes my problems (since windows 10): is because of dithering, FRC, PWM, Blanking, FPS, refresh rate, or some other terms I am also not familiar with?

Is this something that can be resolved in the software? should I replace my GPU, the Motherboard, the display (or that the only solution is replacing my head…?

Until I found this site, I was desperate. I am not familiar with all these technical issues, and I really hope someone here will be able to help me.

Thanks!