tfouto Yes, it is thank you very much. I am happy to know that we both have the same version. The vbios change increment from v1038 to v1039 happened between 0249 and 0348 (no releases in-between those two). I did ask Intel years ago what the difference between 1038 and 1039 was, but they didn't know. I've always wanted to look and see, but never did. It's interesting because 0348 was listed as a version that worked well with Hackintosh involving certain functions and graphics support and the other versions not as well but 0348 is also a version that has audio issues with Windows 7 (but does not affect 8.1 or 10) in the changelog. Yes, our NUCs can be used with MacOS too. Some assembly required.

The Hackintosh changelog for El Capitan states:

0353: Same shutdown issue as 352. May require "FixShutdown" to be selected in Clover Configurator (ACPI screen) as well as the BIOS settings at the link below.
0352: When you shut down, the NUC turns off, but 5 seconds later it starts up again. Try these settings to fix shutdown.
0348: Perhaps the best choice for now. The only noticeable fix in 0350 is the resolution of the Visual BIOS screens, but the shutdown behavior isn't worth it.
0246: Worked OK, but on the 5i7RYH the graphics were improved by upgrading to 0348.

No description of what "graphics improvement" was in the changelog, but there was something in MacOS.

    I am trying it too.
    I've just completed a new clean installation and the first impression is better than 1909 but worst than 1809. Now, i am trying to install the last AMD driver because now i am using the WDDM 2.6 (1903 / 1909), let's see if i can activate the WDDM 2.7.

    Edit 05/06: I've used the new setup with WDDM 2.6 for 2/3 h and even if the images/text seem very clear, I felt bad! So it's really different from the 1909 where I wasn't even able to look at the desktop but it's still not ok for me.
    Tonight I will test it again with the last AMD driver and WDDM 2.7. Then I will try it with a different monitor and maybe I can try also an Nvidia GPU! I want to buy another SSD and install on it W10 1709 and see if I am still ok with it because I am not sure anymore 🙁

    I'm still using the XPS 9560 (Intel HD 630 / Nvidia GTX 1050 / FHD) setup mentioned in the original post without issue - it's like looking at a piece of paper for me, the best experience I've had with Windows in years. I can work on it all day in 2004 without any symptoms, using the old graphics drivers that are installed. I haven't tried updating them, and probably won't (even if it would be handy for diagnosis purposes).

    However I've been experimenting with the new XPS 9500 I have just received (Intel UHD / Nvidia GTX 1650 / FHD), after updating it to 2004. Its needs more investigation but preliminary signs are not perfect.

    This throws up some interesting questions, like why the XPS 9560 would give migraine symptoms in 30 minutes of use with 1909, but the same graphics hardware and drivers allow me to use 2004 all day? And is it the hardware or the drivers in new machines that are the problem, if Windows isn't?

    As usual, this issue continues to baffle. Very glad I have an up-to-date, working setup though.

      si_edgey Can you do the other way around? Install the drivers on 9500 that you have on 9560? Install old NVidia and Intel drivers on 9500?

      Btw do your symptoms also are eye strain or just nausea/migraine? Are you affected by brigtness?

          tfouto I agree. You should try this and leave the 9560 with that working setup! 🙂

          For me, it was eye strain and dizziness. Tomorrow I will update this post with the first impression with the WDDM 2.7 vs 2.6 but I don't think it can change the result..

              tfouto I'm pretty sure Intel HD drivers will work on UHD hardware (7th gen vs 10th gen hardware), I'm not sure about the Nvidia ones though - perhaps they're worth a try.

              My symptoms start with eye strain (dry heavy eyes, pain in left eye) before developing into nausea and ultimately migraine.

                Lauda89 my symptoms are eye strain. Nothing else. And the pain is very physical. When I am really bad i also develop light sensitivity. All light becomes harsh. But i usually dont have náusea, Headache, dizziness, etc.

                    tfouto If you cant install nvidia try with Intel older version. Maybe that helps. Next you can try to disable Nvidia driver.

                      On this note @Slacor has just added the User Bio feature back in - this is really handy for writing your symptoms and triggers for quick reference by others. If you hover over my username you'll see what I mean - really helpful when reading replies from people because they're only really relevant if they have similar symptoms and triggers to you.

                      As for drivers, I think you guys are right, I'll experiment with older drivers and configs on the 9500 in W10 v2004 before returning it. Just wish I didn't have to trigger such severe symptoms to experiment - if only there was a test that could be run so we know exactly what's going on. @Seagull seems to be making good progress with this though, maybe one day we'll have a reliable system for testing for dithering and PWM in advance of getting sick!

                        si_edgey This throws up some interesting questions, like why the XPS 9560 would give migraine symptoms in 30 minutes of use with 1909, but the same graphics hardware and drivers allow me to use 2004 all day? And is it the hardware or the drivers in new machines that are the problem, if Windows isn't?

                        I suspect it's a bit of both. 2004 to my eyes definitely looked more comfortable. Like others mentioned, can you try the same 9560 drivers on the 9500?

                        The VBIOS defines the video output regardless of the OS/Driver settings, so it could be forcing temporal dithering at the GPU output level. Checking my NUC technical notes there are options to change this, but I can't see them in my BIOS. I guess it's locked down.

                          si_edgey In my case i don't think the PWM is an issue because one of my favourite device is the iPhone X, and I can use it for hours and hours!
                          I've tried to disable the FRC on my monitor thanks to the AMD driver where I can choose 6 bit or 8 bit. But I didn't felt any difference about my symptoms, instead the image quality was pretty bad without the FRC.

                          I really don't know what the problem is! 🙁

                            Now moving back to WIndows 7 to do a comparison. My impression is that in 2004, they fixed whatever was making it difficult to focus on (text in particular is hugely better), but somehow it still hurts over time. Certainly an improvement over 1909. I will continue to run 2004 on my laptops, but on my desktop where Windows 7 has no compatibility issues at all, I think I will run Windows 7. My comparison will be on World of Tanks, which I spend a fair amount of time playing on my desktop, and which I had pain over time using 2004.

                            I give up guys. It doesn't work for me. I can use it for some times but after 1/2 hours I die. I've tried WDDC 2.6 and 2.7 but I didn't see/felt any difference.
                            Now I have to format again and try the 1803, let's hope to fix it now 🙁

                            My current setup is: AMD ryzen 1700x, RX 480 and alienware AW2518H 240hz.
                            I will try more thing at the end of the year with the new Nvidia 3000 series and maybe a second SSD to use 2 W10 at the same time

                              I also don't think 2004 is good to me. Maybe i can try older drivers later, but i feel pain in eyes right now. The text is sharper, but strain is there after a while. There is something wrong with colors. The screen is just to bright.

                              • KM likes this.

                              Lauda89 Is 1803 good for your eyes? Can you stay long enough without any symptoms?

                                  I ran some experiments on my two setups:

                                  • Dell XPS 9560 (Intel 630 / Nvidia 1050) - W10 v2004 (updated direct from 1511) - no tweaks, working perfectly - I can use this all day for the first time in years, 1607 - 1909 caused migraines and nausea
                                  • Dell XPS 9500 (Intel UHD / Nvidia 1650) - W10 v2004 - no tweaks, migraines and nausea

                                  I couldn't get the 9560 drivers working on the 9500, so I swapped in the 9560 SSD and booted the unusable machine with the usable OS and drivers. The experiment didn't really work as the laptop auto-installed drivers for the 9500 on startup, and it was unusable.

                                  However, when I swapped the SSD back to the 9560 and reverted to the same display drivers I had been using (in the original post), it was STILL unusable. On my previously perfect setup.

                                  I gave my eyes a day without computers to reset, then tried deleting and installing drivers and tried everything else I could think of - still unusable, and I couldn't find anything that was different, version numbers, BIOS version etc. But something must've updated within Windows somewhere when I booted the SSD on the unusable machine and stayed like that. Whatever changed made my perfect setup unusable for me, on the same laptop, graphics drivers and OS.

                                  I had cloned my drive before I did this (not my first rodeo!) and when I restored from the clone the 9560 is back to being PERFECT again - like looking at a piece of paper on 2004 with no tweaks.

                                  As always, I find myself confused again - some interaction between Windows and the graphics drivers must be at play here. Now I have a perfectly working clone I'm tempted to start fiddling with drivers to see if I can work out what is causing the issue. Any thoughts?

                                    si_edgey Do you have system restore enabled on the now 'bad' HD? Interested to know if rolling back to a snapshot from a few days earlier resolves the issues.

                                    It's still a mystery, however more evidence that this is primarily a software issue.

                                        diop System restore got confused when I swapped the SSD to a new machine and back sadly, as my first thought was the same as yours. On the plus side, I'm potentially close to having a system where I can make it 'bad' and 'good' very quickly, on a seemingly identical setup, which will be great for testing.

                                        • KM likes this.

                                          On Windows 7, I can play World of Tanks for much longer before pain starts. Oh well. At least Microsoft is still fiddling with the rendering. I'd be more concerned if nothing was changing at all between builds.

                                          dev