EDIT. Counter to what I claimed in this post, BenQ monitors EW3270U and EW3280U are not Quantum Dot. They are “enhanced phosphor” technology and have a different spectrum compared to Quantum Dot.

EDIT: I now strongly prefer the EW3270U over the EW3280U for my eye comfort. However, what works for me may not work for you!

All this time I thought old Nvidia cards were the best. Been using those. Then I got a laptop with Intel UHD 630, and on my favourite Windows 10 2015 LTSB (seriously, if you’re still messing about on post-1511 Windows 10 and having pain, switching to Simplixed Windows 7 or Window 10 2015 LTSB, which both still get security updates, is probably the most impactful thing you can do) it is has less pain than any Nvidia card I’ve tried in recent memory (including what I thought was a “safe” card, my GTX 650 Ti Boost).

Recently, decided to try the Intel HD 530 on my Skylake desktop. Holy bananas, it’s like looking at paper in combination with my BenQ EW3280U (Quantum Dots on the backlight dramatically reduce light spectrum associated pain for me). Unfortunately it can’t output 4K to the monitor at 60 frames, so I’m using 1080p output (same on the UHD 630, since it’s so weak graphics, it’s even slow sometimes to keep up with the desktop environment at 4K, never mind games). Definitely an improvement over the UHD 630, which was an improvement over various Nvidia cards (I did try the dithering registry keys). I run ditherig with both. On the HD 530, it doesn’t look like I’m trying to look at something masquerading as 3D (which is what a lot of eyestrain feels like for me). It’s FLAT and easy to focus on. Driver for the HD 530 is 10.18.15.4279 (WDDM 2.0 in this Windows 10 Threshold environment, sometimes Intel driver installers will install different WDDM driver from the SAME binary based on your Windows version, even between different Windows 10 versions), as recommended by @Sunspark.

Unrelated, but after a decent amount of experimentation, Windows 10 2015 LTSB is BETTER than Windows 7 for me. Cleaner image. @Gurm mentioned a while back that pre-1607 Windows 10 had very clean rendering, maybe even better than Windows 7. This is my experience. I will never stop stanning 2015 LTSB on this forum.

    degen

    I'm still using 8.1 here until support ends, but good to know there's a W10 alternative afterwards.

    It still comes down to the same scenario of 'Device X Driver Y and OS Z solved my issues'. As I mentioned on the other thread, iOS14 seems much more comfortable, not completely but still a noticeable improvement. It just goes to show how this issue is entirely in the hands of software.

      Is there a way to get clean copies of these Windows versions? I posted before about this and people posted some sketchy websites and said to just confirm the checksum with what's listed on similarly sketchy websites.

      I happen to need a clean computer for some of my work and can't just download random cracked versions. Is there somewhere I can buy these legitimately or are cracked versions the only way?

      • JTL replied to this.

        screenjunky MSDN used to display checksums, but I don't think they do anymore 🙁

          degen If you go to Run and type winver, what's the build #?

              degen Great to hear you've found a nice working setup! I think the Intel drivers are the key culprit in the dithering wars in laptops, given that they deal with the output to the screen / monitor. I'm fine with Windows 10 v2004 in it's vanilla form as long as I'm using the oldest Intel drivers for the HD 630 onboard graphics.

              Obviously the Nvidia settings are more important in desktop GPU setups, I'm successfully using a GTX 770 on the latest drivers / Windows 10 v2004 right now which is great.

                  3 months later

                  si_edgey do you find that adding the Nvidia card makes a difference? I'm confused on the relationship between integrated graphics and peripheral graphics cards. I've always thought that you're always using one or the other, but reading through several different threads here, I'm starting to gather that they work in conjuction with eachother...?

                  I have a desktop computer that has Intel HD 630 integrated graphics that's always been "OK" for me, it's been mostly comfortable but not fantastic. Lately, it's been less comfortable and harder to focus on and I notice that the drivers were updated in 11-2020. So I'll probably roll back to the 2016 drivers and see if that makes a difference.

                  But, I think the difference between HD and UHD is in the hardware? I believe they are different GPUs/chipsets. I can't just try the UHD 630 drivers if I have the HD 630 hardware, right?

                  I've considered adding a graphics card (Nvidia 6xx seem to be most universally safe) thinking it would completely bypass the integrated graphics. But, am I wrong? Will the Intel IG still play a role?

                      jrhack Funnily enough, I posted about this exact topic in this big thread I started.

                      If you're on a desktop machine and you monitor is connected directly to a discrete GPU (ie an Nvidia graphics card like the 6xx you mention) then the Intel UHD graphics on the processor will by bypassed entirely. Only if you were to connect to the HDMI output of your motherboard would the Intel graphics come into play.

                      The confusion comes with laptop GPUs. On a laptop with an integrated GPU + discrete GPU, if additional horsepower is needed (for games / video editing etc) then the discrete GPU kicks into gear. However, every frame that the dGPU renders is passed to the integrated GPU to actually display it on the screen. So the iGPU is the one that has to work for you.

                      So in your case adding an Nvidia graphics card (and connecting directly to it on the back of your computer) would bypass the UHD graphics. More often than not you can then disable the integrated graphics in the BIOS if you're not using them, for peace of mind.

                        My apologies if this is the wrong place to discuss this. There are so many threads with a lot of overlapping discussion that I'm finding it challenging to know exactly where to post questions. If you prefer having this discussion on another thread, I'm more than happy to jump over.

                        Thanks for that insight, that leaves me with a great deal of hope for this desktop by trying different graphics cards. BUT, now I'm confused on how Windows fits into the mix. I see a lot of talk on different versions of Windows 10 and how some work better than others. Does that come into play only with integrated graphics or also with discrete cards. My thinking has been that with an old card (e.g. Nvidia 6xx), the hardware just wouldn't support some of the weird new things Windows might be doing in their display layer. But the more I read around on this site, the more it seems that both Windows and Graphics manufacturers can introduce problems for us just in the OS and drivers.

                        So, while installing an old Nvidia card seems like a logical first step in pursuing a comfortable solution, is just the card enough to ensure comfort or do I also need to pay attention to my version of Windows and the drivers I install for that card?

                          jrhack For myself, both. Although the small exception is a new(er) Intel graphics adapter, UHD 630, which can run on an older driver only released by Intel to OEMs, and that driver runs on old Windows versions which are comfortable for me. Newer Windows builds are uncomfortable for me no matter the hardware and driver. Also newer Nvidia cards which always dither are uncomfortable for me on any OS and driver combination.

                          As an example, there is no way I can make old Nvidia cards or otherwise usable Intel adapters comfortable on post 1511 Windows 10 builds. New Windows 10 just doesn’t work for me.

                          I am relying completely on outdated software and hardware to have a working setup.

                              degen Thanks degen, can you give an example of old drivers you are using on UHD 630 graphics? Are they just older versions of UHD 630 or something else?

                                  degen Also newer Nvidia cards which always dither are uncomfortable for me on any OS and driver combination.

                                  Have you tried any G-sync monitors (native or Ultimate) with Nvidia cards?

                                      MPaz could anyone identify the "safest" one on that list? volunteering to try with my Gsync laptop

                                      • MPaz replied to this.

                                          degen Also - does that include 2004 and 20H2 versions that many here are finding comfortable? Those also don't work for you? Because I've been kind of excited to find a recent version of Windows 10 that works.

                                              Quad43 Great! Does the laptop triggers you to feel the symptoms or is it "safe"? What's the model?

                                              From what I've researched about the monitors during the last few days:

                                              • It must be either "G-sync Ultimate" or "G-sync", as "G-sync compatible" monitors don't have the integrated processor that we are curious about. Which in theory might not use dithering when connected to Nvidia GPU. You can read more about it in this thread - @highradio came up with this idea.
                                              • Avoid NanoIPS (some DELLs) as many people said that it causes them the symptoms.
                                              • Simply check the model on Ledstrain and Google - something like "[model] eyestrain", just to make sure that others aren't getting the symptoms.
                                              • Avoid 6 bits + FRC. I suggest choosing 8 bits or 8 bits + FRC, or 10 bits (if such exists). If it's 8 bits + FRC, make sure that on your first try you disable the FRC, so just choose 8 BPC in Nvidia Control Panel and not 10 BPC.
                                                You can use: https://www.displayspecifications.com

                                                  MPaz It's "ok". Razer Blade Pro 17. Someone else here reported it was perfect with the nvidia 2070, I got the 2080 and it's ok but definitely get a little ache in the temples - which is very different what I get with Intel-based machines (above the eyes)

                                                  Any ideas which monitor model suits your above reqs?

                                                    It really depends on the budget. I suggest you to go over the list and check each. I'd also go with VA / IPS.
                                                    I will get my ASUS ROG Swift PG259QN in a couple of weeks, so you might try something else.

                                                    P.S. have you disabled your integrated GPU? There might be an option somewhere in the settings or in the BIOS as your laptop in theory shouldn't cause the symptoms, unless it still uses Intel GPU at some point.

                                                      jrhack 2004 and 20H2 are not comfortable for me.

                                                        dev