ryans

ryans Intel for some reasons disables dithering on <8 bit screens, but enabled it on 8 bit. This seems opposite of what dithering is designed for: https://communities.intel.com/message/428034. However this does not explain why I don't see banding on a laptop screen that I suspect is 6bit.

Laptops are 6-bit and have dithering by the GPU?

ryans The reason we can see dithering on the e-ink displays is likely because the display represents itself as having 8 bit panel. This means Intel will use diterthing.

Yes. Well I've never seen an external display that represents itself as being under 8-bit.

ryans Data sheets about Intel GPUs here: https://github.com/olvaffe/gpu-docs

I think I've already posted some data sheet PDF's a while back?

ryans igfxtweak tool does support external monitors, I don't know about ditherig.

igfxtweak supports it by the multiple "pipelines" as seen in the datasheet (one pipeline per GPU output connector).

Why do we call it ditherig and not dithering.exe? Someone made a typo once and it stuck? lol.

No promises but I might have something similar for AMD graphics under Windows/OSX/Linux in the future. I've been busy but be rest assured I'm still working on it 😉

              JTL The guy who wrote "ditherIG" doesn't exactly speak Engrish.

                  Do you guys mean if I buy an ONYX BOOX Max2 I may end up with a thousand bucks less in my pockets and another gadget I am not able to use?

                    JTL :-(
                    Is that a potential problem only in case the device is employed as a secondary display or standalone as well?

                    • JTL replied to this.

                        AGI I do not know.

                        Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

                        • AGI replied to this.

                            JTL I feel like every day I wake up and I have one point of reference less, and an upgrade could downgrade my life quality. Why are they even called upgrades?

                            Since you are the temporal dithering guru, I thought dithering were for getting more colors out of the color palette. Why would it be employed in e-ink display technology? To have different grey tones?
                            Also, in my first post on this website I asked why in the past I found relief by lowering the screen resolution. Monitors or laptop displays would pass from unusable to quite comfy. I was wondering whether there is an interplay between resolution and PWM. KM instead suggested dithering, which I had never heard of before that time. So I formulate my question. You seem to have studied in detail both dithering and PWM. Have you ever seen what happens if the display is not run at native resolution? Does dithering fade? Thanks for any feedback!

                                AGI I don't think anyone gets eye strain from E-Ink displays (that have no light). Their refresh rate is low. Even if some temporal dithering comes through like we maybe have seen in the video, it will have a very low rate.
                                The only thing that I would make sure to turn off is any LED light.

                                I thought about buying a Dasung Paperlike Pro even if duty and taxes should apply on top of the price (adding up to well over $1000) but then I read that the device doesn't have a "CE" sign and that no CE papers exist. Which due to European laws is required for any electronically device that gets imported to the EU. If they open the package at the border and don't find a CE sign or papers, they will either destroy it or send it back and you have to pay for it. I heard in Austria they don't control packages as much. But in other EU states the purchase seems risky.

                                • AGI replied to this.

                                    KM Have you considered the ONYX BOOX Max 2? I am thinking of getting it shipped by Amazon US to Asia where I am currently located. There is ~ 10% extra to pay for shipping and import taxes, but no mention to any issue at the custom. Well, besides warranty (if the device needs repair I would have to ship it back to the US at my expenses).

                                    • KM replied to this.

                                        AGI Haven't considered that one yet. I think somewhere I read it might be slower than the Paperlike which made it less attractive. Still need to verify that.

                                          KM The only thing that I would make sure to turn off is any LED light.

                                          Do you mean sources of illumination in general, like lamps in the working place?

                                          • KM replied to this.

                                              AGI Some electronic paper devices have their own light that may flicker or be otherwise uncomfortable.

                                              • AGI replied to this.

                                                  AGI I don't think dithering is used in e-ink technology. If you hook up an e-ink display to a computer, you might see dithering though. This is because the GPU is outputting dithering pixels.

                                                    AGI I feel like every day I wake up and I have one point of reference less, and an upgrade could downgrade my life quality. Why are they even called upgrades?

                                                    I don't know what to tell you? Maybe if we got some traction with companies who don't think we are all just hypochondriacs things might get improved as a result.

                                                    AGI Since you are the temporal dithering guru

                                                    Uh thanks?

                                                    AGI To have different grey tones?

                                                    I have a Kindle Paperwhite and I don't see any moving image dithering because it it did the image would be constantly flickering.

                                                    AGI I was wondering whether there is an interplay between resolution and PWM.

                                                    It wouldn't be PWM.

                                                    AGI KM instead suggested dithering, which I had never heard of before that time.

                                                    I don't blame you, it's an alien concept to most people.

                                                    AGI Have you ever seen what happens if the display is not run at native resolution?

                                                    Sadly not. I wish we had more empirical data.

                                                    AGI Does dithering fade?

                                                    Maybe if the dithering is done by the graphics card it might be different, but if it's done by the display itself it could be the same.

                                                    • AGI replied to this.

                                                                    KM Do you mean like the (relatively) new Kindle with the light from the side to read at night without a table lamp?
                                                                    We all agree e-ink does not use backlighting, do we? Sorry for the redundant question, but I am trying to avoid surprises shall I really place an order for the ONYX BOOX...Thanks

                                                                        JTL Thanks on all your answers. I turn the question around. Have you or anyone else ever tried to use a lower display resolution and see what happens in terms of eye comfort? I just want to understand if I am the only one who found relief in doing that. It is probably not important anymore though, since my long-lived laptop stopped behaving even in lower resolution once I "upgraded" from XP to Windows 10? Always more confused...

                                                                        JTL I don't know what to tell you? Maybe if we got some traction with companies who don't think we are all just hypochondriacs things might get improved as a result.

                                                                        Thanks for your work. I agree the only way to receive attention is to show experimental evidence and, even better, point out a potential solution...

                                                                              AGI Do you mean like the (relatively) new Kindle with the light from the side to read at night without a table lamp?

                                                                              My Kindle Paperwhite has a "front lit" display where instead of the lights at the back illuminating the display the lights are at the bottom shining towards the top of the device.

                                                                              I'll post a picture trying to show it tomorrow.

                                                                                dev