highradio Thanks for the response. Just a couple of things to bear in mind is that from many years of experience we know that everyone is different, so some of your points may not apply to some.

For example, many people do in fact have dithering issues with Nvidia / AMD graphics cards on desktop computers that use no Intel graphics. And the same thing with the PS4 / Xbox One. This became a problem around the same time that LED screens became prevalent, and different colour settings in the Nvidia control panel have been proven to trigger problematic temporal dithering by @Seagull and others.

Some monitors themselves seem to be involved in the dithering process also. And also something I've noted is that 'G-Sync Enabled' laptops are often referring to the fact they can connect to G-Sync monitors, and not necessarily that the laptop display itself is connected via G-Sync directly to the Nvidia card. I'd be interested in whether this means that the laptop display still uses the Intel drivers?

That's amazing that the first laptop you tried worked for you but there are many variables involved in the hardware alone, before you even start thinking about different brains...! This is why I thought it would be good to try a 'known-good' setup first, so thanks for the model number.

      si_edgey For a laptop to support G-Sync, the display has to be connected to the Nvidia card directly. There's no other way. I've not heard of any laptop manufacturer claim "G-sync supported only if you connect it to a G-sync display!". No, they all carry a G-sync display as standard. Go to any G-sync laptop's drivers download page, you'll not find intel HD drivers on offer. Manufacture's use a combination of Intel HD and Nvidia to ensure power savings and long battery life. But with gaming laptops that support G-sync, power saving becomes an oxymoron, so intel HD is omitted completely.

      You might want to talk to people who report eyestrain with Nvidia or AMD desktop cards and see how they have connected their displays. Most likely it will turn out that they have connected their monitors using the default VGA port which is handled by Intel HD and also they will have Intel HD drivers installed on their system.

      For me a G-Sync laptop with PWM free display solved the problem completely, and I hope it helps others.

          highradio You might want to talk to people who report eyestrain with Nvidia or AMD desktop cards and see how they have connected their displays. Most likely it will turn out that they have connected their monitors using the default VGA port which is handled by Intel HD and also they will have Intel HD drivers installed on their system.

          You've identified your problem and that's good. But please don't assume that everyone else here has the same problem. No one on here is unknowingly connecting their monitor to the integrated graphics rather than their discrete graphics card on their desktop PC. We are tech savy people. On my desktop PC at least, its not even possible to do that without changing a BIOS setting.

              si_edgey For example, many people do in fact have dithering issues with Nvidia / AMD graphics cards on desktop computers that use no Intel graphics. And the same thing with the PS4 / Xbox One.

              Just chiming in with this point too. Good to know there are usable PC setups out there, but myself and others have the same symptoms on games consoles/smart tv/media players where it's almost impossible to alter the setup.

                Seagull We are tech savy people

                You might be tech savvy, but the silent majority landing on this page may be not.

                Seagull No one on here is unknowingly connecting their monitor to the integrated graphics

                There are a lot of people who make this unwitting mistake, and simply fixing it could mean an end to their suffering. After all this forum is not meant to solve one particular person's problem now is it? No point getting triggered buddy.
                https://superuser.com/questions/511802/do-i-need-to-connect-my-graphics-card-to-my-monitor

                There will be a lot of people landing on this page who'll have their problem fixed just by switching to a G-Sync supported laptop. You'll know what works for you when you actually try out what has worked for others. For some a PWM free display might solve the issue, for some a higher refresh rate monitor will work, some will have a faulty graphics card that needs to be replaced, and for some their problem might be totally unrelated to the device they're using. The point is, someone landing on this page will try out the various solutions suggested and might end up fixing their problem instead of going round and round endlessly. Chill out for them 😃

                    Any one getting any kind of eye strain or sleep using AMD Ryzen with vega graphics laptop?

                    Has anyone had problems with a recent Windows update? I needed to use Best Buy's remote support, and now my eyestrain is back. I know that one of the things they did was update Windows 10 and drivers. I have a Lenovo Flex 5 and run ditherig. It doesn't have PWM, and ditherig helps, but now something else is hurting. Any thoughts? I have so much work to do right now, I need my laptop to be comfortable.

                    highradio Thanks highradio. Looking to find an Acer that you mentioned but with 32gb, hard so far. What other options do you know that support this setup? It doesn't seem that any Dells do? Any other top tier brands?

                      a month later

                      Quick update here - I have returned my M1 Macbook 13" 2020 as it causes the same inability to focus on the screen, headaches, neck pain and migraine as any other Macbook I have purchased since 2011 has caused me. I'm still using my Dell XPS 15 9560 with zero issues.

                      I am testing @highradio's hypothesis next and have ordered an HP Omen 15 with G-Sync for testing:

                      https://store.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=3F854EA&opt=ABU&sel=NTB

                      I'll report back with my findings, fingers crossed. 🚀

                        si_edgey Great! Interested to find out how it goes. I'm going to be testing a new Dell XPS (with eyesafe built-in) and hoping to try a Razer with G-Sync also

                          Update on the Nvidia G-Sync enabled laptop I purchased, the HP Omen 15-ek0005na.

                          I booted up the laptop yesterday after receiving it and initially felt the familiar 'jitter' in my eyes, an inability for them to be at peace that I recognise from MacBooks and any laptop other than my working setup. This was followed by a dizzy feeling quite quickly.

                          I jumped into Device Manager and noticed that Intel UHD graphics were running alongside the RTX 2070. Opening the Omen Command Centre software there is an option to switch from Hybrid graphics (Intel & RTX - good for power saving / gaming occasionally) or to pure Discrete graphics:

                          After switching to Discrete and rebooting the Intel UHD graphics are gone from Device Manager, the display is calm and feels flat like paper, just like on my working setup. It's too early to say anything conclusive but so far this feels like a usable machine to me, after a few hours of gaming and a couple of hours of work. I have no eye strain, dizziness or nausea at all.

                          There are of course a few of downsides of G-Sync laptop:

                          • being a gaming laptop, they are big and ugly - if it's for everyday work and travel the XPS 15 9560 would be my go-to
                          • it's not silent even when idling, and makes a bit of a racket when gaming
                          • power management in Discrete-only mode will be affected, so shorter battery life

                          But all of that is easily tradeable if it's a working machine, particularly if you're not cycling to work with it for example.

                          All of this appears to be further proof (as if needed!) that my issue lies exclusively with Intel drivers. It's time to go back to Intel with the evidence of how their software can turn a 'good' system 'bad'.

                            si_edgey
                            Really interesting. Let's see if it's true or just a placebo effect.
                            What W10 are you using? 20H2?
                            With your daily XPS are you still with 2004?

                            I don't think the problem is all related to the intel driver. It would be an easy problem to resolve, just using an AMD or nvidia GPU or the new apple M1 chip.
                            But you weren't able to use the M1 mac, so i am still convinced that is an interaction problem of the entire chain OS, Driver and monitor and not only one of them.

                                Lauda89 What W10 are you using? 20H2?
                                With your daily XPS are you still with 2004?

                                Both machines are on W10 v2004.

                                Lauda89 I don't think the problem is all related to the intel driver. It would be an easy problem to resolve, just using an AMD or nvidia GPU or the new apple M1 chip.
                                But you weren't able to use the M1 mac, so i am still convinced that is an interaction problem of the entire chain OS, Driver and monitor and not only one of them.

                                Quite possibly, and you're right about MacBooks - there's something baked into MacOS that really triggers me, Intel or otherwise.

                                Being able to quickly enable / bypass the Intel UHD graphics chip on this laptop is quite enlightening, it would be great if there were some simple tests that could be run with consumer hardware to identify the types of dithering and other flickering that are taking place by way of comparison between the two GPU setups on otherwise identical software and hardware.

                                      4 days later

                                      si_edgey I tried your Dell setup, but unfortunately it didn't work for me even though I tried different W10 versions and graphics drivers.

                                      I will try out Omen with switchable graphics as well and I'm pretty optimistic about it.

                                          Dominic Sorry to hear that re: the Dell, that must've been frustrating.

                                          Just an update on the Omen, I have been using it for 6-8 hours per day now for gaming and working and have experienced no eye strain from it at all PROVIDED it is switched into Discrete graphics mode as described above, bypassing the Intel UHD hardware.

                                          Fingers crossed you get the same result.

                                            si_edgey I think the key is Ditherig 1.11 - it is much better than 1.12+3. I can't get it working now on any machines. I tried to buy the new XPS 9700 that comes with "eyesafe" technology in the screen. Unfortunately no luck at all, couldn't get it working. Gsync test for me next also

                                              si_edgey Congrats on finding something that works for you! That's very encouraging that Discrete mode removes the eye strain. I'm interested in trying this model as well, especially considering it doesn't use PWM either (Surprisingly). I'm currently stuck on a 2015 MacBook, so this seems like a huge jump in power if it works for my eyes.

                                              If anyone else happens to try the Omen, please let us know if it works 😃

                                                si_edgey It would be nice to send that notebook to someone like "bluer buster" and let them analyze it with the intel GPU enable and then with the Nvida GPU enable.
                                                Some difference should be found!

                                                  6 days later

                                                  @si_edgey I have another question for you 🙂
                                                  Did you try to disable the intel GPU on your XPS? Is it possible?

                                                  Because I am having many problems with my working laptop so I need to figure out what to buy! I would try the HP spectre 360 15" OLED but it's not available here in Italy.
                                                  Thanks to the covid it's impossible to find the majority of the hardware 🙁

                                                    Lauda89 Hi @Lauda89 - yes, disabling the Intel GPU in Device Manager was how I used the laptop for many years on Windows 10 v1511. That has downsides though - you're on the MS Basic Display Adapter, which means no power saving (hibernation / sleep mode etc) and obviously extremely limited GPU processing.

                                                    These days I just use the oldest drivers possible on Window 10 version 2004 (driver version 21.20.16.4475) and I can use it without symptoms. Switching to the later Intel drivers either makes me dizzy, or triggers a migraine.

                                                    I'd highly recommend this HP Omen 15 G-Sync laptop that I'm using right now, it's the most comfy laptop I've ever used, and I'm including my XPS 15 in that category. The only downsides are it's quite noisy and a bit ugly, what with it being a gaming laptop.

                                                    Can I ask why you think the OLED 360 will work for you? Are you generally able to used all OLED screens?

                                                        dev